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Well, today was the day

Crzipilot

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Date in the sand from alpa.....they'd prolly pick a nice round one. How's 2020 sound?



On another note, I'm surprised the OP was allowed to leave. Have had two instances now where once the bags are on the belt you are submitting yourself to screening. You may not leave until you are cleared. Once in uniform, and once not in uniform.
One was for the body scanner, little smurf made me sit there for 30 mins, until I finally got the attention of a supv. had things cleared up....

Other time was actually a capt. on a trip...and well..that was a 2 hour ordeal where we tried to leave and go back to hotel, but TSA would not allow him to leave, though he wasn't "detained" just wasn't allowed to leave. Seems it went to corp security to DHS and back through, with a little fax to the TSA people in charge to cool it......
 

waka

Emasculating the Right
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I wonder what comparisons were made in 1930's Germany. Those opinions were dismissed as ludicrous then too. Not long after that, total gun control was complete,

It's still legal to own guns in the USA and there is zero indication that "total gun control" is on the horizon.


the Reich took over health care
We still have a privatized health care....it's just better regulated. By the way, Health Care Reform was voted in by congress. See, congressmen are elected by the people. There is zero similarity to the Reich.

and dictated over every business
Since when is the POTUS dictating every business? GM and the banks?
When a bank or car company BEGS the government for help and the gov't bails them out, the gov't should d@mn well dictate their business until the bail-out funds are repaid. Guess what, the banks and auto companies paid back all of the money and the gov't doesn't "dictate":rolleyes:them.


- for the good of the people of course. What constitutional rights the people had were gone.
So which of our Constitutional rights are gone?

After that, you were deemed to be a danger to society if you had the wrong name, said anything contrary to the regime or were merely accused you of being contrary by ANYONE. THEN, those posing a "danger" were sent to reeducation camps - many of whom didn't come back.
Sounds like COINTELPRO that was started under Ike's watch and has been favored more by republicanazi presidents since.


Then, as now, Hitler, et al., didn't force their way into power, They were supported by masses who want Hope, Change, and Safety. Well, they got their wish, didn't they.
Not one US president has forced their way in either, they were supported by the masses....sound familiar? :rolleyes: As for change, hope, safety, in so many words every president's campaign promises the same.

You are really reaching. Like I said, the Hitler/Nazi party analogies to the POTUS are nothing new. It has always been the opposing side that makes the Hitler references. When either side does it, it's just stupid, really.

Why not try to conjure up an original thought?
 
Last edited:

waka

Emasculating the Right
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It's still legal to own guns in the USA and there is zero indication that "total gun control" is on the horizon.


We still have a privatized health care....it's just better regulated. By the way, Health Care Reform was voted in by congress. See, congressmen are elected by the people. There is zero similarity to the Reich.

Since when is the POTUS dictating every business? GM and the banks?
When a bank or car company BEGS the government for help and the gov't bails them out, the gov't should d@mn well dictate their business until the bail-out funds are repaid. Guess what, the banks and auto companies paid back all of the money and the gov't doesn't "dictate":rolleyes:them.


So which of our Constitutional rights are gone?

Sounds like COINTELPRO that was started under Ike's watch and has been favored more by republicanazi presidents since.


Not one US president has forced their way in either (ok, except for maybe Bush Jr.), they were supported by the masses....sound familiar? :rolleyes: As for change, hope, safety, in so many words every president's campaign promises the same.

You are really reaching. Like I said, the Hitler/Nazi party analogies to the POTUS are nothing new. It has always been the opposing side that makes the Hitler references. When either side does it, it's just stupid, really.

Why not try to conjure up an original thought?



.....
 

pilotyip

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but I am still concerned we are removing the opportunity to fail, to try something and not be successful at it. I mean why try, everyone of your needs will be taken care of, work will be optional.
 

mesaserf

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Dude quit causing trouble, we have grunt people just trying to do what they are told. This is the best we have right now to keep us alive. Who gives a shat, go through the scanner. You are barking up the wrong tree. If you really care talk to your congressman and write the TSA. Don't take it out on the airport workers, they didn't write the rules. As a pilot you should know that better than anyone.
I'm betting if you were on the Delta flight on Christmas you would feel different about the inconvenience. If it helps keep the people who are trying to kill everyone off our flights, giddy up. Go through the motions and quit causing trouble for the rest of us. Or you all can continue with your change the world, naive, childish rants.

It’s pretty easy to tell the former carrier military people on this board. They seem to never question authority. I guess that is a learned behavior from day one of boot camp. Not that such a thing is wrong, sometimes when the fecal material hits the rotating oscillator there is little time to sit down and debate a solution.

I think that is why TSA is having a large test of these scanners in El Paso Texas. I think they chose KELP because of the very large army base near by. Therefore ELP has a significant number of military personal going through the security checkpoint on a daily basis. Why choose ELP you might ask? Because in my opinion by and large military personal are used to being handled like cattle in a stockyard.

Anyone who says that the reduction of personal freedoms is necessary to ensure public safety should pick up a history book to read some time. Look for one with lots of color pictures so you will not lose interest as fast….
 

ackattacker

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hah!
This is no "principled stand". You may think going through security is stupid, and it is in many ways, but the fact of the matter is you could have been asked to go through secondary screening before the new scanners as well for all kinds of reasons. Really nothing changed. Drawing the line here is dumb. Either draw the line at no screening, or accept the screening and move on with your life and your job. I predict no good things will come of your actions and it's doubtful the union or your employer will stand behind you. Frankly if I was your supervisor I wouldn't either. Rebellion to authority is not the kind of character trait airlines look for in pilots. There are other ways to fight these battles and your actions reek of grandstanding and self righteousness.
 

olympus593

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Really nothing changed. Drawing the line here is dumb. Either draw the line at no screening, or accept the screening and move on with your life and your job. I predict no good things will come of your actions and it's doubtful the union or your employer will stand behind you. Frankly if I was your supervisor I wouldn't either. Rebellion to authority is not the kind of character trait airlines look for in pilots. There are other ways to fight these battles and your actions reek of grandstanding and self righteousness.

"Really nothing changed", Really? You must have missed the new TSA memo that now require a check of your genital during pat down. You maybe ok with some dude feeling your P-U-S-S-Y but I'm not ok with some dude checking out my cock.
 

Wasted

u can do it too w kandoo
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This is no "principled stand". You may think going through security is stupid, and it is in many ways, but the fact of the matter is you could have been asked to go through secondary screening before the new scanners as well for all kinds of reasons. Really nothing changed. Drawing the line here is dumb. Either draw the line at no screening, or accept the screening and move on with your life and your job. I predict no good things will come of your actions and it's doubtful the union or your employer will stand behind you. Frankly if I was your supervisor I wouldn't either. Rebellion to authority is not the kind of character trait airlines look for in pilots. There are other ways to fight these battles and your actions reek of grandstanding and self righteousness.

The TSA's goal is to make the body scanner the standard tool. Therefore, if you do not want to go through the scanner ever, you will experience the secondary screening always. Which means, each time you go through, you will be secondary screened. That is a change. That is different than the past. In the past the secondary screening occured at random or if you failed the magnetometer. When the body scanner is installed, it is either the body scanner or the pat down. That means what you think of as secondary screening, is primary now. Your choice of getting naked or getting felt up each and every time you pass through.
 

MILPILOT17

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The TSA's goal is to make the body scanner the standard tool. Therefore, if you do not want to go through the scanner ever, you will experience the secondary screening always. Which means, each time you go through, you will be secondary screened. That is a change. That is different than the past. In the past the secondary screening occured at random or if you failed the magnetometer. When the body scanner is installed, it is either the body scanner or the pat down. That means what you think of as secondary screening, is primary now. Your choice of getting naked or getting felt up each and every time you pass through.


That makes it easy! I'll take the secondary every time.
 

CA1900

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Exactly. If everyone refuses the body-scan, the lines will be backed up out the door, and the program will die on the vine.
 

Crzipilot

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One thing the supervisor did state when I talked to him, with my stand off with not going through the nakid monitor, was that there was a big push from above to use these machines, as A LOT of money had been spent on them. The must be shown as being used, and successful in their deployment. The numbers must show this, so those up top can pat themselves on the back at another successful goat rope....
 

flygirlqt

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"Really nothing changed", Really? You must have missed the new TSA memo that now require a check of your genital during pat down. You maybe ok with some dude feeling your P-U-S-S-Y but I'm not ok with some dude checking out my cock.

Some dude like instructordude?
 

islandhoper

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So, he was just on TV. A little embarrasing I thought. They had to cut him off while he was talking about "having a good time with this"...

I just sent my pregnant wife off yesterday and told her to refuse the scanner. Her pad-down took 15secs and was no different than when my damn uniform pants keep on beeping.

I agree with refusing the scanner, but I have no problem with secondary screening. The only reason he keeps giving for this is that it is "outrageous!". Clearly a weak argument.
He may just have thrown his whole career after 4 years at XpressJet...

To those that agree with him, can you explain me how the current security policies at the airport are an abuse of your personal freedom? Even though I'd like to skip the whole thing as a crewmember, there is just no provision for a positive identification of such (Save the snail-like moving CrewPass program...).
 

stall022

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CrewPass has been ready to go for months. The only problem is CrewPass is an airline funded program. So far the only airline to step up and agree to pay is Alaska. Until airlines see some financial or other gain, ie on time performance, from CrewPass they will continue to not see a need for it.
 

Wasted

u can do it too w kandoo
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To those that agree with him, can you explain me how the current security policies at the airport are an abuse of your personal freedom? Even though I'd like to skip the whole thing as a crewmember, there is just no provision for a positive identification of such (Save the snail-like moving CrewPass program...).

In American society, most people have an issue with having their genitals and breasts (women) inspected or touched. If you disagree, you should go to the supermarket, find a nice looking man or woman in the produce aisle, walk up and touch their genitals. Let us know how it goes. Most of us wear opaque clothing with the expectation that those body parts remain hidden from view and touch. Therefore, when the TSA says that you must reveal those parts of your body, people in this society have a tendency to find that objectionable. If it were not for the Patriot Act, the principle of those machines do violate the 4th Amendment and judicial precedence on the use of strip searches.
 

Amish RakeFight

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Your best bet for fighting it would be the ACLU, obviously. But even they aren't taking on this one from what I can tell.

It's hard to accept the new reality of how much "civil liberty" we give up at airports in the post 9-11 world. I don't blame you for drawing a line, but my gut tells me you're eventually going to have to decide between your career and your civil liberty principles.

Call me "Brainwashed", but if the AITs stop one terrorist act in my lifetime, then all the screenings were worth it.

The "where will the line be drawn" argument is moot. We can fight new technologies as they emerge, and if a true consensus agrees it's gone too far, it can be halted right then and there. (the robot anal probe machine). The consensus agrees (at least tacitly) that this is not too great a breach of our liberties based on the benefit we receive.

Good luck to you though, that sounded like a really crappy day.


Brainwashed. Seek electro-shock treatment. You are temporarily insane.
 

UALRATT

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I wonder what comparisons were made in 1930's Germany. Those opinions were dismissed as ludicrous then too. Not long after that, total gun control was complete, the Reich took over health care and dictated over every business - for the good of the people of course. What constitutional rights the people had were gone. After that, you were deemed to be a danger to society if you had the wrong name, said anything contrary to the regime or were merely accused you of being contrary by ANYONE. THEN, those posing a "danger" were sent to reeducation camps - many of whom didn't come back.

Then, as now, Hitler, et al., didn't force their way into power, They were supported by masses who want Hope, Change, and Safety. Well, they got their wish, didn't they.

Is that why you're hiding behind someone else's picture??
 
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