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Well, today was the day

HA25

Tokyo Tokyo!
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Posts
3,642
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>1
FFDO=end of discussion

= 1 week of my life wasted!

We're fully qualified cockpit crew... we're locked inside the most dangerous place to be if you want to down a plane.. WTF OVER?

Enough of this masquerade of security...
 

Voice Of Reason

Reading Is Fundamental !
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
1,369
Total Time
15 min
I Agree with Him & Applaud his GUTS (a rarity in pilots these days)

I Agree with Him & Applaud his GUTS (a rarity in pilots these days)
http://jalopnik.com/5667976/pilot-wh...yline=true&s=i


Pilot Who Refused Full-Body Scan Railed Against TSA For Months

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets...340x_tsa_1.jpg"ExpressJet pilot Michael Roberts' refusal of an airport full-body scan has drawn an outpouring of support among pilots. But it's a step Roberts has considered since July, when he railed against the Department of Homeland Security's "tyranny."
ExpressJet pilot Michael Roberts got into a standoff with security at Memphis airport on Friday when he refused to be screened using either the full-body scanners being rolled out at U.S. airports by the Transportation Security Administration or a frisking by TSA agents.
Roberts' stance has touched a nerve among other pilots - people used to being trusted with the safety of ferrying thousands of people. One Southwest Airlines captain urged his colleagues to take action as well:
Everybody else...don't let Michael stand alone on this. This affects all of us. On the one hand, it's ridiculous. What would I even DO with a weapon if I managed to get one on the plane? I already HAVE the plane?...And on the other hand, it's not only a violation of our rights, it's a big potential health risk. Seriously, do you want to go through an X-Ray machine three or four days a week for the next twenty odd years? Yeah, THAT's perfectly safe....
Until last Tuesday, I had never heard of a pilot being asked to go through the full body scanner. Then I was. I refused, and they were grumpy about it, but I just went through the metal detector, and that was it. Next day, Michael has this happen. How many days before the rules change, and we no longer have an option? How many months before they demand something more onerous...and all the abused hookers just go along with it? Where do you draw the line. I say here.
But Roberts' decision wasn't a spur of the moment call. Back in July, Roberts was already exercised over the prospect of not just scanning, but patdowns for pilots, telling members of a pilot's forum that "not only will I not hesitate to delay a flight, I may end up walking away from the job and air travel altogether if necessary." He also said "you'd have to have your head buried completely in the sand to believe that the Dept. of Homeland Security really gives two shiits (sic) about preventing terrorism."
I cannot consent to nor accept unwelcome physical contact any more than having images of my naked body being viewed by government personnel as a routine part of my daily commute to work. If I'm not under arrest or a suspect in some known threat to air transportation security, the feds have no grounds to invade my privacy and personal space in this way. It is an outrage beyond any measure of reason, an assault on liberty, a gross overreaching of the state, and a very significant step on the road back to the sort of tyranny many of our forbears and the founders of this society fought and often died to escape and abolish.
In August, after the Transportation Security Administration announced expanded security for pilots, Roberts wrote a letter to his bosses, which he attempted to get other pilots to sign as well. He also wrote to the Memphis Commercial Appeal last month, raising the "virtual strip search" term and questioning the qualifications of TSA agents:
Federal airport security guards are often unskilled, entry-level responders to help-wanted ads affixed to pizza boxes. Perhaps novice agents lack the perspective to grasp the full implications of their work. Forgive them, for they know not what they do. But please don't show them your naked body. Don't let these strangers put their hands on you or your children. Their abuse protects no one.
So far, there's no update on Roberts' status with ExpressJet.
Send an email to Justin Hyde, the author of this post, at justin@jalopnik.com. "
 
Last edited:

HA25

Tokyo Tokyo!
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Dec 16, 2001
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>1

atpcliff

Well-known member
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Nov 26, 2001
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Hi.

I DID have to undergoe a pat down numerous times since 2001.
Africa was interesting. At one airport/country they took my water (I was in uniform), and at another, they waived my bag and personal screening as I was in uniform with ID.

Our TSA is NOT very good. The Israeli's are the best, and if we would adopt their methods we would be a LOT more secure, and we wouldn't have all this body-screening crap, and there would not be any racial/ethnic profiling. They look for the person who is not behaving "normally".

I think the Feds should fund and implement Crew Pass immediately.

cliff
MIA
 

pilotyip

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Hi.
Our TSA is NOT very good. The Israeli's are the best, and if we would adopt their methods we would be a LOT more secure, and we wouldn't have all this body-screening crap, and there would not be any racial/ethnic profiling. They look for the person who is not behaving "normally".cliff
MIA
But that method might offend someone as an individual, that is not the American way, we must offend everyone equally
 

Simon Says

New Airbus Regional Jet
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Posts
1,036
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To those that agree with him, can you explain me how the current security policies at the airport are an abuse of your personal freedom? Even though I'd like to skip the whole thing as a crewmember, there is just no provision for a positive identification of such (Save the snail-like moving CrewPass program...).


When you agree to a search you may discontinue the search at any time. Once this pilot discontinued the search the TSA may not proceed to search unless their is probable cause.

No probable cause found, but questioning began. This continued questioning and possible detainment could be construed as a violation.
 

mtsupilot376

happy to be alive
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156
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I like this idea. I don't think I'd ever try it. It was posted on a travel site for women.

How to Fight Back Against Pat-Downs by Airport Security Screeners
February 1, 2006
by Matthew Reed
Lance Corporal, Unites States Marine Corps
0351/ Training NCO 1st Marine Regiment

You must use 911 and *677 to call the police first and get them on your side. Make sure that you get to the airport with plenty of time to spare. Have the airline you are flying with print up a Gate Pass for a friend or a significant other so that they may accompany you through the security gate. This way you will have a witness to the crime. If you cannot be accompanied by anyone, do not worry; this tactic will still work. Remain calm and stay silent. Don't get belligerent or violent.

The second the security screener goes over your breasts or genital area with their hands after wanding you, pull out your cell phone and dial 911. In a loud but clear tone of voice tell the 911 operators that you are being sexually assaulted at the airport. If the screeners have name badges on, give the 911 operator their names. However, if you cannot do this, physical descriptions will do just fine for a 911 call. The legal definitions of sexual harassment and sexual assault nationwide are generally somewhat broad. Sexually oriented intimidation and uninvited touching of the breasts or genital areas is typically classified as sexual assault.

After the 911 call is completed, dial *677. This number will automatically connect you to the State Police dispatcher. Tell the State Police everything you told the 911 operator, without telling them you also called 911.

The fact that the T.S.A. screeners are federal employees will not protect them. Screeners have been arrested by local police in Denver, Atlanta, Honolulu and Los Angeles for theft of passenger belongings. If they can be arrested for steeling, they can be arrested for sexual assault.

Having a significant other tell the arriving police officers that the screeners sexually assaulted you will do plenty to make sure that the screener/screeners that were patting you down are arrested and spend a night or two in jail.

If the local police don't arrest the screeners, the State Police are still there at your side. Go along with whoever ends up making the arrest and tell the police officers that you would like to file sexual assault charges against the screener/screeners. If you file first, this puts your T.S.A. tormentors on the defensive, now having to prove their innocence.

The accused will be the subject of an investigation in which time they will be subject to a thorough background check (the T.S.A. in years past did not do any real initial background checks for its screeners, so who knows what a police investigation will turn up), solitary interrogation and a night or two in jail.

Even if the screeners are later turned loose they may have to pay a fine once they are released in order to pay the city back for housing them in jail. There is an old cop saying about this; "you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride downtown."

Get restraining orders filed against the screeners while you're at the police station. This way, they will never be able to personally harass you again without violating the restraining order.

If you don't want to chance missing your flight, or are uncomfortable with the 911 *677 tactic, then file a complaint against the T.S.A. screeners that patted you down so you can get their names and badge numbers without arousing suspicion. Just politely file the complaint and go back to the police department's sexual assault detail later on to file the sexual assault charges.

The statute of limitations for sex crimes is seven years. So, if you or someone you know were groped by T.S.A. screeners under the original pat-down policy from September to December 2004, you can still go back and file sexual assault charges. If you filed a complaint, this will aid you when you go back to file charges.

Whether you filed a complaint or not, if you could recognize the screeners who sexually abused you, then tell the police that. Have them take you back to the airport to search for the screener so an arrest can be made.

When women were forced into the "private" screening areas like sheep into a slaughtering pen, there were usually other screeners and passengers there to watch it take place. Therefore, the detectives can subpoena other screeners and bystanders to testify about the incident. However, your 911 call can still get the screeners jailed. If your child was molested, then contact the police department's child exploitation unit.

There is still time to properly retaliate if you want to reclaim some of your lost rights and dignity.
 
Last edited:

Secret Squirrel

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some
You wanted it! You bought a ticket, showed up, and consented to search. At what point do you say no? You consented to the pat down. What part is now a sexual assault? That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. So when you go cough for the doctor do you call the cops on him? When you wife had a mammogram did you sue the xray tech?
 

andyd

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Aug 30, 2007
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312
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ATPmin
If Alpa would have grown a spine and insisted on CREW PASS this entire scanner-gate would never have been an issue. I for one am glad this guy has taken a stand, and if ALPA was smart they'd jump on the bandwagon here and get their lawyers to this guys defense......and use the media spotlight to emphasis the foot draggin on Crew Pass. It would only take ONE day of several thousand cancelled flights across the country if we'd ALL do what this guy did. For now I too opt out of the scanner and take the "secondary" screening....the same way I refuse to take off my belt or my shoes...and opt for the secondary screening. Until my AME can definitively tell on no uncertain terms that repeated radiation exposure will not have long term consequences then I will continue to opt out. The average leasure travelor may be irradiated 2-4 times a year....we are exposed 2-10 times a WEEK!!! Enough of the BS, enough of the dog & ponie show...we are NOT the traveling public...WE FLY THE FRIGGEN AIRPLANE....
 

pilotyip

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Do TSA employees go through these procedures before entering the secure area? BTW, if every pilot one day elected to follow this guy's example it might get someone's attention at how stupid this whole TSA process is.
 

Paradoxus

Sith Sorcerer
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
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Lv. 50
Do TSA employees go through these procedures before entering the secure area? BTW, if every pilot one day elected to follow this guy's example it might get someone's attention at how stupid this whole TSA process is.

Cannot be done without a national union/guild. Perhaps there is utility beyond pricing one-self out of the job, eh? ;)
 

Tejas-Jet

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Posts
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enuf
MY bet is that this guy is forgotten in a couple of weeks....thanks for the entertainment.
 

igneousy2

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Apr 3, 2004
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I have been saying for awhile now that we should not pass up the memorableness of the upcoming 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. All the pilot unions should get together and run ads in all the big papers stating that starting on 9/11/11 no pilot will subject themselves to any screening and will not show up to work if that is the only alternative. Ten years has been plenty of time. 10 months from now is plenty of time to put a computer terminal hooked into CASS at every checkpoint.
 

Captzaahlie

My kind of FOD!
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Posts
1,564
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18k ?
I like this idea. I don't think I'd ever try it. It was posted on a travel site for women.

How to Fight Back Against Pat-Downs by Airport Security Screeners
February 1, 2006
by Matthew Reed
Lance Corporal, Unites States Marine Corps
0351/ Training NCO 1st Marine Regiment

You must use 911 and *677 to call the police first and get them on your side. Make sure that you get to the airport with plenty of time to spare. Have the airline you are flying with print up a Gate Pass for a friend or a significant other so that they may accompany you through the security gate. This way you will have a witness to the crime. If you cannot be accompanied by anyone, do not worry; this tactic will still work. Remain calm and stay silent. Don't get belligerent or violent.

The second the security screener goes over your breasts or genital area with their hands after wanding you, pull out your cell phone and dial 911. In a loud but clear tone of voice tell the 911 operators that you are being sexually assaulted at the airport. If the screeners have name badges on, give the 911 operator their names. However, if you cannot do this, physical descriptions will do just fine for a 911 call. The legal definitions of sexual harassment and sexual assault nationwide are generally somewhat broad. Sexually oriented intimidation and uninvited touching of the breasts or genital areas is typically classified as sexual assault.

After the 911 call is completed, dial *677. This number will automatically connect you to the State Police dispatcher. Tell the State Police everything you told the 911 operator, without telling them you also called 911.

The fact that the T.S.A. screeners are federal employees will not protect them. Screeners have been arrested by local police in Denver, Atlanta, Honolulu and Los Angeles for theft of passenger belongings. If they can be arrested for steeling, they can be arrested for sexual assault.

Having a significant other tell the arriving police officers that the screeners sexually assaulted you will do plenty to make sure that the screener/screeners that were patting you down are arrested and spend a night or two in jail.

If the local police don't arrest the screeners, the State Police are still there at your side. Go along with whoever ends up making the arrest and tell the police officers that you would like to file sexual assault charges against the screener/screeners. If you file first, this puts your T.S.A. tormentors on the defensive, now having to prove their innocence.

The accused will be the subject of an investigation in which time they will be subject to a thorough background check (the T.S.A. in years past did not do any real initial background checks for its screeners, so who knows what a police investigation will turn up), solitary interrogation and a night or two in jail.

Even if the screeners are later turned loose they may have to pay a fine once they are released in order to pay the city back for housing them in jail. There is an old cop saying about this; "you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride downtown."

Get restraining orders filed against the screeners while you're at the police station. This way, they will never be able to personally harass you again without violating the restraining order.

If you don't want to chance missing your flight, or are uncomfortable with the 911 *677 tactic, then file a complaint against the T.S.A. screeners that patted you down so you can get their names and badge numbers without arousing suspicion. Just politely file the complaint and go back to the police department's sexual assault detail later on to file the sexual assault charges.

The statute of limitations for sex crimes is seven years. So, if you or someone you know were groped by T.S.A. screeners under the original pat-down policy from September to December 2004, you can still go back and file sexual assault charges. If you filed a complaint, this will aid you when you go back to file charges.

Whether you filed a complaint or not, if you could recognize the screeners who sexually abused you, then tell the police that. Have them take you back to the airport to search for the screener so an arrest can be made.

When women were forced into the "private" screening areas like sheep into a slaughtering pen, there were usually other screeners and passengers there to watch it take place. Therefore, the detectives can subpoena other screeners and bystanders to testify about the incident. However, your 911 call can still get the screeners jailed. If your child was molested, then contact the police department's child exploitation unit.

There is still time to properly retaliate if you want to reclaim some of your lost rights and dignity.


I see the logic that you are trying to make.....

Screeners have been arrested by local police in Denver, Atlanta, Honolulu and Los Angeles for theft of passenger belongings. If they can be arrested for steeling, they can be arrested for sexual assault.


BUT "Pat downs" are part of their job descriptions
stealing is NOT. A pat down is not considered sexual assault,
in fact the TSA agent explains the procedure and asks the
passenger if they agree to it. I've heard it with my own ears.
I'm NOT defending the TSA, I consider the whole game to be
smoke and mirrors. IMHO I've yet to see a more stupid group of dysfunctional
government employees, they are brain washed into believing the clown suits they wear give them supreme power.
 

SpatialD

Fed up
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Oct 29, 2005
Posts
90
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The following is an excerpt from an email I just received, followed by a link to a 1 hr. radio program where I had the opportunity to explain myself in more detail than I've been able to do elsewhere:

Good Afternoon,

I am writing this email in hopes of getting in contact with Michael Roberts.

Today when flying from Boston Logan to BWI my 17 year old daughter had quite an unpleasant experience due to the new scanner malfunctioning. There was some confusion of whether there was a scan or not. She was told that she needed to submit to a full pat down after being told "it did not scan" . She was told she would need a pat down. Being 17 she had no idea what that meant and how intense a full detailed full body pat down can be. Even when she began to cry, the TSA agent continued the pat down. My daughter felt molested and humiliated and as a parent I was helpless to stop this violation. Also, the gentleman behind her had a full body pat down which leads me to believe the machine was not working for anyone. However his pat down was not as intense as my daughters.

My daughter who is a seasoned traveler and even visited Israel this summer has never experienced such extreme searches If they were to have asked her the reason for her visit, as they do in other countries, they would have learned she was no threat and was merely on a college visit to MIT. As a parent, I have serious concerns that such a search would be done on a 17 year old minor. The searches cross the line, she was molested for no reason.

I really want Mr. Roberts to know that he is doing the right thing by standing up to TSA. These measures are not making it safer to fly, they are just arbitrary measures being done to make us believe it is safer at the same time it is taking advantage of law abiding citizens. I do hope he is successful in his fight against TSA.

I am sending a similar email to Southwest Airlines, Congressman Chris VanHollen and Boston Logan Airport. Until this issue is resolved, I will find an terminal/airport that does not have the full body scan or I will have her take the train.

Thank you for forwarding this message.
1 hr. Don Cooper radio interview. This is a show that covers economics and some political stuff, so we talked about a number of things broadly related to my situation, or not even at all. Sorry we kept interrupting each other. There was a bit of a phone lag. And I was just glad to finally get my side of the story out somewhere!
 

Secret Squirrel

Well-known member
Joined
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Posts
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some
You have been on almost every news TV show in the last couple days. This radio show is the first place you are finally able to get your side of the story out?
 
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