Well, today was the day

[instructordude]

Is the reason that you are not worried about someone touching your nut sack because you don't have one in the first place??????

Your a Flight Attendant for who?

 

[Crzipilot]

Date in the sand from alpa.....they'd prolly pick a nice round one. How's 2020 sound?



On another note, I'm surprised the OP was allowed to leave. Have had two instances now where once the bags are on the belt you are submitting yourself to screening. You may not leave until you are cleared. Once in uniform, and once not in uniform.
One was for the body scanner, little smurf made me sit there for 30 mins, until I finally got the attention of a supv. had things cleared up....

Other time was actually a capt. on a trip...and well..that was a 2 hour ordeal where we tried to leave and go back to hotel, but TSA would not allow him to leave, though he wasn't "detained" just wasn't allowed to leave. Seems it went to corp security to DHS and back through, with a little fax to the TSA people in charge to cool it......

 

[waka]

I wonder what comparisons were made in 1930's Germany. Those opinions were dismissed as ludicrous then too. Not long after that, total gun control was complete,

It's still legal to own guns in the USA and there is zero indication that "total gun control" is on the horizon.

the Reich took over health care

We still have a privatized health care....it's just better regulated. By the way, Health Care Reform was voted in by congress. See, congressmen are elected by the people. There is zero similarity to the Reich.

and dictated over every business

Since when is the POTUS dictating every business? GM and the banks?
When a bank or car company BEGS the government for help and the gov't bails them out, the gov't should d@mn well dictate their business until the bail-out funds are repaid. Guess what, the banks and auto companies paid back all of the money and the gov't doesn't "dictate"them.

- for the good of the people of course. What constitutional rights the people had were gone.

So which of our Constitutional rights are gone?

After that, you were deemed to be a danger to society if you had the wrong name, said anything contrary to the regime or were merely accused you of being contrary by ANYONE. THEN, those posing a "danger" were sent to reeducation camps - many of whom didn't come back.

Sounds like COINTELPRO that was started under Ike's watch and has been favored more by republicanazi presidents since.

Then, as now, Hitler, et al., didn't force their way into power, They were supported by masses who want Hope, Change, and Safety. Well, they got their wish, didn't they.

Not one US president has forced their way in either, they were supported by the masses....sound familiar? As for change, hope, safety, in so many words every president's campaign promises the same.

You are really reaching. Like I said, the Hitler/Nazi party analogies to the POTUS are nothing new. It has always been the opposing side that makes the Hitler references. When either side does it, it's just stupid, really.

Why not try to conjure up an original thought?

 

[waka]

It's still legal to own guns in the USA and there is zero indication that "total gun control" is on the horizon.


We still have a privatized health care....it's just better regulated. By the way, Health Care Reform was voted in by congress. See, congressmen are elected by the people. There is zero similarity to the Reich.

Since when is the POTUS dictating every business? GM and the banks?
When a bank or car company BEGS the government for help and the gov't bails them out, the gov't should d@mn well dictate their business until the bail-out funds are repaid. Guess what, the banks and auto companies paid back all of the money and the gov't doesn't "dictate"them.


So which of our Constitutional rights are gone?

Sounds like COINTELPRO that was started under Ike's watch and has been favored more by republicanazi presidents since.


Not one US president has forced their way in either (ok, except for maybe Bush Jr.), they were supported by the masses....sound familiar? As for change, hope, safety, in so many words every president's campaign promises the same.

You are really reaching. Like I said, the Hitler/Nazi party analogies to the POTUS are nothing new. It has always been the opposing side that makes the Hitler references. When either side does it, it's just stupid, really.

Why not try to conjure up an original thought?

.....

 

[pilotyip]

but I am still concerned we are removing the opportunity to fail, to try something and not be successful at it. I mean why try, everyone of your needs will be taken care of, work will be optional.

 

[mesaserf]

Dude quit causing trouble, we have grunt people just trying to do what they are told. This is the best we have right now to keep us alive. Who gives a shat, go through the scanner. You are barking up the wrong tree. If you really care talk to your congressman and write the TSA. Don't take it out on the airport workers, they didn't write the rules. As a pilot you should know that better than anyone.
I'm betting if you were on the Delta flight on Christmas you would feel different about the inconvenience. If it helps keep the people who are trying to kill everyone off our flights, giddy up. Go through the motions and quit causing trouble for the rest of us. Or you all can continue with your change the world, naive, childish rants.

It’s pretty easy to tell the former carrier military people on this board. They seem to never question authority. I guess that is a learned behavior from day one of boot camp. Not that such a thing is wrong, sometimes when the fecal material hits the rotating oscillator there is little time to sit down and debate a solution.

I think that is why TSA is having a large test of these scanners in El Paso Texas. I think they chose KELP because of the very large army base near by. Therefore ELP has a significant number of military personal going through the security checkpoint on a daily basis. Why choose ELP you might ask? Because in my opinion by and large military personal are used to being handled like cattle in a stockyard.

Anyone who says that the reduction of personal freedoms is necessary to ensure public safety should pick up a history book to read some time. Look for one with lots of color pictures so you will not lose interest as fast….

 

[ackattacker]

This is no "principled stand". You may think going through security is stupid, and it is in many ways, but the fact of the matter is you could have been asked to go through secondary screening before the new scanners as well for all kinds of reasons. Really nothing changed. Drawing the line here is dumb. Either draw the line at no screening, or accept the screening and move on with your life and your job. I predict no good things will come of your actions and it's doubtful the union or your employer will stand behind you. Frankly if I was your supervisor I wouldn't either. Rebellion to authority is not the kind of character trait airlines look for in pilots. There are other ways to fight these battles and your actions reek of grandstanding and self righteousness.

 

[olympus593]

Really nothing changed. Drawing the line here is dumb. Either draw the line at no screening, or accept the screening and move on with your life and your job. I predict no good things will come of your actions and it's doubtful the union or your employer will stand behind you. Frankly if I was your supervisor I wouldn't either. Rebellion to authority is not the kind of character trait airlines look for in pilots. There are other ways to fight these battles and your actions reek of grandstanding and self righteousness.

"Really nothing changed", Really? You must have missed the new TSA memo that now require a check of your genital during pat down. You maybe ok with some dude feeling your P-U-S-S-Y but I'm not ok with some dude checking out my cock.

 

[Wasted]

This is no "principled stand". You may think going through security is stupid, and it is in many ways, but the fact of the matter is you could have been asked to go through secondary screening before the new scanners as well for all kinds of reasons. Really nothing changed. Drawing the line here is dumb. Either draw the line at no screening, or accept the screening and move on with your life and your job. I predict no good things will come of your actions and it's doubtful the union or your employer will stand behind you. Frankly if I was your supervisor I wouldn't either. Rebellion to authority is not the kind of character trait airlines look for in pilots. There are other ways to fight these battles and your actions reek of grandstanding and self righteousness.

The TSA's goal is to make the body scanner the standard tool. Therefore, if you do not want to go through the scanner ever, you will experience the secondary screening always. Which means, each time you go through, you will be secondary screened. That is a change. That is different than the past. In the past the secondary screening occured at random or if you failed the magnetometer. When the body scanner is installed, it is either the body scanner or the pat down. That means what you think of as secondary screening, is primary now. Your choice of getting naked or getting felt up each and every time you pass through.

 

[MILPILOT17]

The TSA's goal is to make the body scanner the standard tool. Therefore, if you do not want to go through the scanner ever, you will experience the secondary screening always. Which means, each time you go through, you will be secondary screened. That is a change. That is different than the past. In the past the secondary screening occured at random or if you failed the magnetometer. When the body scanner is installed, it is either the body scanner or the pat down. That means what you think of as secondary screening, is primary now. Your choice of getting naked or getting felt up each and every time you pass through.

That makes it easy! I'll take the secondary every time.

 

[CA1900]

Exactly. If everyone refuses the body-scan, the lines will be backed up out the door, and the program will die on the vine.

 

[Crzipilot]

One thing the supervisor did state when I talked to him, with my stand off with not going through the nakid monitor, was that there was a big push from above to use these machines, as A LOT of money had been spent on them. The must be shown as being used, and successful in their deployment. The numbers must show this, so those up top can pat themselves on the back at another successful goat rope....

 

[flygirlqt]

Your a Flight Attendant for who?

Weak, very weak. Incidentally, it is "you're". Maybe your mom can help you out next time you need to post.

 

[flygirlqt]

"Really nothing changed", Really? You must have missed the new TSA memo that now require a check of your genital during pat down. You maybe ok with some dude feeling your P-U-S-S-Y but I'm not ok with some dude checking out my cock.

Some dude like instructordude?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Were you afraid that the guy would try to give you a dutch rudder or something?

 

[islandhoper]

So, he was just on TV. A little embarrasing I thought. They had to cut him off while he was talking about "having a good time with this"...

I just sent my pregnant wife off yesterday and told her to refuse the scanner. Her pad-down took 15secs and was no different than when my damn uniform pants keep on beeping.

I agree with refusing the scanner, but I have no problem with secondary screening. The only reason he keeps giving for this is that it is "outrageous!". Clearly a weak argument.
He may just have thrown his whole career after 4 years at XpressJet...

To those that agree with him, can you explain me how the current security policies at the airport are an abuse of your personal freedom? Even though I'd like to skip the whole thing as a crewmember, there is just no provision for a positive identification of such (Save the snail-like moving CrewPass program...).

 

[stall022]

CrewPass has been ready to go for months. The only problem is CrewPass is an airline funded program. So far the only airline to step up and agree to pay is Alaska. Until airlines see some financial or other gain, ie on time performance, from CrewPass they will continue to not see a need for it.

 

[Wasted]

To those that agree with him, can you explain me how the current security policies at the airport are an abuse of your personal freedom? Even though I'd like to skip the whole thing as a crewmember, there is just no provision for a positive identification of such (Save the snail-like moving CrewPass program...).

In American society, most people have an issue with having their genitals and breasts (women) inspected or touched. If you disagree, you should go to the supermarket, find a nice looking man or woman in the produce aisle, walk up and touch their genitals. Let us know how it goes. Most of us wear opaque clothing with the expectation that those body parts remain hidden from view and touch. Therefore, when the TSA says that you must reveal those parts of your body, people in this society have a tendency to find that objectionable. If it were not for the Patriot Act, the principle of those machines do violate the 4th Amendment and judicial precedence on the use of strip searches.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Your best bet for fighting it would be the ACLU, obviously. But even they aren't taking on this one from what I can tell.

It's hard to accept the new reality of how much "civil liberty" we give up at airports in the post 9-11 world. I don't blame you for drawing a line, but my gut tells me you're eventually going to have to decide between your career and your civil liberty principles.

Call me "Brainwashed", but if the AITs stop one terrorist act in my lifetime, then all the screenings were worth it.

The "where will the line be drawn" argument is moot. We can fight new technologies as they emerge, and if a true consensus agrees it's gone too far, it can be halted right then and there. (the robot anal probe machine). The consensus agrees (at least tacitly) that this is not too great a breach of our liberties based on the benefit we receive.

Good luck to you though, that sounded like a really crappy day.

Brainwashed. Seek electro-shock treatment. You are temporarily insane.

 

[UALRATT]

I wonder what comparisons were made in 1930's Germany. Those opinions were dismissed as ludicrous then too. Not long after that, total gun control was complete, the Reich took over health care and dictated over every business - for the good of the people of course. What constitutional rights the people had were gone. After that, you were deemed to be a danger to society if you had the wrong name, said anything contrary to the regime or were merely accused you of being contrary by ANYONE. THEN, those posing a "danger" were sent to reeducation camps - many of whom didn't come back.

Then, as now, Hitler, et al., didn't force their way into power, They were supported by masses who want Hope, Change, and Safety. Well, they got their wish, didn't they.

Is that why you're hiding behind someone else's picture??

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Michael Roberts on CNN (video):

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/10/20/pilot.refuses.body.scan/index.html?iref=allsearch

 

[HA25]

FFDO=end of discussion

= 1 week of my life wasted!

We're fully qualified cockpit crew... we're locked inside the most dangerous place to be if you want to down a plane.. WTF OVER?

Enough of this masquerade of security...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I Agree with Him & Applaud his GUTS (a rarity in pilots these days)

I Agree with Him & Applaud his GUTS (a rarity in pilots these days)
http://jalopnik.com/5667976/pilot-wh...yline=true&s=i


Pilot Who Refused Full-Body Scan Railed Against TSA For Months

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets...340x_tsa_1.jpg"ExpressJet pilot Michael Roberts' refusal of an airport full-body scan has drawn an outpouring of support among pilots. But it's a step Roberts has considered since July, when he railed against the Department of Homeland Security's "tyranny."
ExpressJet pilot Michael Roberts got into a standoff with security at Memphis airport on Friday when he refused to be screened using either the full-body scanners being rolled out at U.S. airports by the Transportation Security Administration or a frisking by TSA agents.
Roberts' stance has touched a nerve among other pilots - people used to being trusted with the safety of ferrying thousands of people. One Southwest Airlines captain urged his colleagues to take action as well:

Everybody else...don't let Michael stand alone on this. This affects all of us. On the one hand, it's ridiculous. What would I even DO with a weapon if I managed to get one on the plane? I already HAVE the plane?...And on the other hand, it's not only a violation of our rights, it's a big potential health risk. Seriously, do you want to go through an X-Ray machine three or four days a week for the next twenty odd years? Yeah, THAT's perfectly safe....
Until last Tuesday, I had never heard of a pilot being asked to go through the full body scanner. Then I was. I refused, and they were grumpy about it, but I just went through the metal detector, and that was it. Next day, Michael has this happen. How many days before the rules change, and we no longer have an option? How many months before they demand something more onerous...and all the abused hookers just go along with it? Where do you draw the line. I say here.
​

But Roberts' decision wasn't a spur of the moment call. Back in July, Roberts was already exercised over the prospect of not just scanning, but patdowns for pilots, telling members of a pilot's forum that "not only will I not hesitate to delay a flight, I may end up walking away from the job and air travel altogether if necessary." He also said "you'd have to have your head buried completely in the sand to believe that the Dept. of Homeland Security really gives two shiits (sic) about preventing terrorism."

I cannot consent to nor accept unwelcome physical contact any more than having images of my naked body being viewed by government personnel as a routine part of my daily commute to work. If I'm not under arrest or a suspect in some known threat to air transportation security, the feds have no grounds to invade my privacy and personal space in this way. It is an outrage beyond any measure of reason, an assault on liberty, a gross overreaching of the state, and a very significant step on the road back to the sort of tyranny many of our forbears and the founders of this society fought and often died to escape and abolish.
​

In August, after the Transportation Security Administration announced expanded security for pilots, Roberts wrote a letter to his bosses, which he attempted to get other pilots to sign as well. He also wrote to the Memphis Commercial Appeal last month, raising the "virtual strip search" term and questioning the qualifications of TSA agents:

Federal airport security guards are often unskilled, entry-level responders to help-wanted ads affixed to pizza boxes. Perhaps novice agents lack the perspective to grasp the full implications of their work. Forgive them, for they know not what they do. But please don't show them your naked body. Don't let these strangers put their hands on you or your children. Their abuse protects no one.
​

So far, there's no update on Roberts' status with ExpressJet.
Send an email to Justin Hyde, the author of this post, at [email protected]. "

 

[UALRATT]

Now what are you guys gonna do with this reporter the next time he fly's on your aircraft? Think I'd like to make him puke for $hits and giggles. No wonder they're loosing their heads, literally.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39763540#39763540

 

[HA25]

Now what are you guys gonna do with this reporter the next time he fly's on your aircraft? Think I'd like to make him puke for $hits and giggles. No wonder they're loosing their heads, literally.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39763540#39763540

So Apple won't fix the iphone 4, so what?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi.

I DID have to undergoe a pat down numerous times since 2001.
Africa was interesting. At one airport/country they took my water (I was in uniform), and at another, they waived my bag and personal screening as I was in uniform with ID.

Our TSA is NOT very good. The Israeli's are the best, and if we would adopt their methods we would be a LOT more secure, and we wouldn't have all this body-screening crap, and there would not be any racial/ethnic profiling. They look for the person who is not behaving "normally".

I think the Feds should fund and implement Crew Pass immediately.

cliff
MIA

 

[RadioClash]

The Constitution is not even honored by police officers. QUOTE]

Explain this to me, with examples, personal if you will, Cosmo.

 

[pilotyip]

Hi.
Our TSA is NOT very good. The Israeli's are the best, and if we would adopt their methods we would be a LOT more secure, and we wouldn't have all this body-screening crap, and there would not be any racial/ethnic profiling. They look for the person who is not behaving "normally".cliff
MIA

But that method might offend someone as an individual, that is not the American way, we must offend everyone equally

 

[Simon Says]

To those that agree with him, can you explain me how the current security policies at the airport are an abuse of your personal freedom? Even though I'd like to skip the whole thing as a crewmember, there is just no provision for a positive identification of such (Save the snail-like moving CrewPass program...).

When you agree to a search you may discontinue the search at any time. Once this pilot discontinued the search the TSA may not proceed to search unless their is probable cause.

No probable cause found, but questioning began. This continued questioning and possible detainment could be construed as a violation.

 

[mtsupilot376]

I like this idea. I don't think I'd ever try it. It was posted on a travel site for women.

How to Fight Back Against Pat-Downs by Airport Security Screeners
February 1, 2006
by Matthew Reed
Lance Corporal, Unites States Marine Corps
0351/ Training NCO 1st Marine Regiment

You must use 911 and *677 to call the police first and get them on your side. Make sure that you get to the airport with plenty of time to spare. Have the airline you are flying with print up a Gate Pass for a friend or a significant other so that they may accompany you through the security gate. This way you will have a witness to the crime. If you cannot be accompanied by anyone, do not worry; this tactic will still work. Remain calm and stay silent. Don't get belligerent or violent.

The second the security screener goes over your breasts or genital area with their hands after wanding you, pull out your cell phone and dial 911. In a loud but clear tone of voice tell the 911 operators that you are being sexually assaulted at the airport. If the screeners have name badges on, give the 911 operator their names. However, if you cannot do this, physical descriptions will do just fine for a 911 call. The legal definitions of sexual harassment and sexual assault nationwide are generally somewhat broad. Sexually oriented intimidation and uninvited touching of the breasts or genital areas is typically classified as sexual assault.

After the 911 call is completed, dial *677. This number will automatically connect you to the State Police dispatcher. Tell the State Police everything you told the 911 operator, without telling them you also called 911.

The fact that the T.S.A. screeners are federal employees will not protect them. Screeners have been arrested by local police in Denver, Atlanta, Honolulu and Los Angeles for theft of passenger belongings. If they can be arrested for steeling, they can be arrested for sexual assault.

Having a significant other tell the arriving police officers that the screeners sexually assaulted you will do plenty to make sure that the screener/screeners that were patting you down are arrested and spend a night or two in jail.

If the local police don't arrest the screeners, the State Police are still there at your side. Go along with whoever ends up making the arrest and tell the police officers that you would like to file sexual assault charges against the screener/screeners. If you file first, this puts your T.S.A. tormentors on the defensive, now having to prove their innocence.

The accused will be the subject of an investigation in which time they will be subject to a thorough background check (the T.S.A. in years past did not do any real initial background checks for its screeners, so who knows what a police investigation will turn up), solitary interrogation and a night or two in jail.

Even if the screeners are later turned loose they may have to pay a fine once they are released in order to pay the city back for housing them in jail. There is an old cop saying about this; "you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride downtown."

Get restraining orders filed against the screeners while you're at the police station. This way, they will never be able to personally harass you again without violating the restraining order.

If you don't want to chance missing your flight, or are uncomfortable with the 911 *677 tactic, then file a complaint against the T.S.A. screeners that patted you down so you can get their names and badge numbers without arousing suspicion. Just politely file the complaint and go back to the police department's sexual assault detail later on to file the sexual assault charges.

The statute of limitations for sex crimes is seven years. So, if you or someone you know were groped by T.S.A. screeners under the original pat-down policy from September to December 2004, you can still go back and file sexual assault charges. If you filed a complaint, this will aid you when you go back to file charges.

Whether you filed a complaint or not, if you could recognize the screeners who sexually abused you, then tell the police that. Have them take you back to the airport to search for the screener so an arrest can be made.

When women were forced into the "private" screening areas like sheep into a slaughtering pen, there were usually other screeners and passengers there to watch it take place. Therefore, the detectives can subpoena other screeners and bystanders to testify about the incident. However, your 911 call can still get the screeners jailed. If your child was molested, then contact the police department's child exploitation unit.

There is still time to properly retaliate if you want to reclaim some of your lost rights and dignity.