well that was quick.....

[jenex]

Are downgrades in the contract? Why has company not done that?

 

[Hogprint]

It appears that NetJets and FLOPS use the same union busters. Apparently they got their check, and it appears to be a full court press. What a waste of money.

Too bad it's a sophomoric attempt. I was hoping for a surprise and a challenge. Oh well...



Pilots: This is what management thinks of US. They would rather fork a ton of money to a union busting law firm to FIGHT us rather than work WITH us. If this isn't upsetting, then I can't help you.

Gutshotdraw, the union doesn't pick a fight. As you can see, management lobbed the first grenade. We, the pilots(that includes you), are only defending the CBA that the COMPANY agreed to.

I can't decide if he's on the payroll or just a clueless former fair haired child of Okatie who's decided to go rouge/militant on the message board (the anonymous one it must be pointed out...) to air grievances.

As you say if he's being paid they aint gett'n their money's worth! :laugh:

Hey G4...I'm going to give you a little bit-O-advice...If yer yapp'n away on here and your former and current Gwhiz bubbas aren't coming in to back you up...You're pzz'n in the wind...

 

[BentOver]

If a Union busting shop IS on the payroll it would have to be reported on financial statements from NJA...(I used to know what reports but it's been a while since I researched it)..

Of course it wouldn't be titled "Union BUSTING legal firm". It would show up as "Labor relations something-or-other"

I believe a youtube of the "Union busting 101" guy will reveal what is reported. And then a quick google search gets you to the government website that has the reporting requirements, and what forms are in play...

Hope that made some sense..

 

[BentOver]

Hey G4...I'm going to give you a little bit-O-advice...If yer yapp'n away on here and your former and current Gwhiz bubbas aren't coming in to back you up...You're pzz'n in the wind...

Luckily, it is pretty apparent that no matter what this fool (G4) says...We really don't have to worry because we know 2 things:

It will never get to a vote

OR if it did, it would never pass...

This whole conversation is nothing but semantics for an event that will never occur. But it sure is fun ......

 

[fischman]

+1...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gutshotdraw, the union doesn't pick a fight. As you can see, management lobbed the first grenade. We, the pilots(that includes you), are only defending the CBA that the COMPANY agreed to.

Don't drag me back into this poo-flinging contest.

I'm reasonably sure I know who G4 is and he isn't management or a paid "consultant." BTW G4, answer the PM....

What I AM sure of is that he holds a different opinion than most of you on these issues. Engage him on the merits. When you just denigrate him (or others) and accuse him of being stupid or a management stooge, you only make yourselves look petty and you damage the credibility of your position.

What I am ABSOLUTELY sure of is that this company is at the proverbial "fork in the road." Problem is, it's a roundabout with roads leading off in four different directions and all the signs are painted in Sanskrit. I think two of them end at a very deep canyon and the other two are pretty bumpy cobblestone roads that wander off across the countryside. Which one we end up on? Well, that's where I get a little fuzzy...

Now. As with that other board, I'm OUT.

 

[jtf]

Are downgrades in the contract? Why has company not done that?

Downgrades are in the contract, but the union made the requirements very difficult for the company to comply with and make the downgrades. If the company shrinks like crazy and replaces the fleet with different types of airframes, I'd imagine they could do it in a way to knock quite a few PICs down to SIC. We will see.

 

[Hogprint]

Luckily, it is pretty apparent that no matter what this fool (G4) says...We really don't have to worry because we know 2 things:

It will never get to a vote

OR if it did, it would never pass...

This whole conversation is nothing but semantics for an event that will never occur. But it sure is fun ......

I'm with you 100%...But is sure is fun!

 

[jtf]

If our competitors can get perfectly adequate pilots for significantly less than we are paid, then it doesn't matter what your opinion of our worth is. The marketplace doesn't really care. We will slowly go out of business while you tell us how valuable we are.

In that case we will have CA and Flex on the street with us since they are paid darn near the same.

 

[G4dude]

You may work "for" my company, but you are not employed by them.

I don't understand. Clarification, please?

 

[G4dude]

Don't drag me back into this poo-flinging contest.

I'm reasonably sure I know who G4 is and he isn't management or a paid "consultant." BTW G4, answer the PM....

What I AM sure of is that he holds a different opinion than most of you on these issues. Engage him on the merits. When you just denigrate him (or others) and accuse him of being stupid or a management stooge, you only make yourselves look petty and you damage the credibility of your position.

What I am ABSOLUTELY sure of is that this company is at the proverbial "fork in the road." Problem is, it's a roundabout with roads leading off in four different directions and all the signs are painted in Sanskrit. I think two of them end at a very deep canyon and the other two are pretty bumpy cobblestone roads that wander off across the countryside. Which one we end up on? Well, that's where I get a little fuzzy...

Now. As with that other board, I'm OUT.

Thanks, Gut. Check your messages, I just responded to yours. Cheers!

 

[G4dude]

I can't decide if he's on the payroll or just a clueless former fair haired child of Okatie who's decided to go rouge/militant on the message board (the anonymous one it must be pointed out...) to air grievances.

As you say if he's being paid they aint gett'n their money's worth! :laugh:

Hey G4...I'm going to give you a little bit-O-advice...If yer yapp'n away on here and your former and current Gwhiz bubbas aren't coming in to back you up...You're pzz'n in the wind...

It was a funny post, I know. The reason I was surprised by the intensity of pilots' feelings about scope is that we aren't even discussing it on the large cabin "Guffstreams", other than to wonder why y'all want to tie the company's hands during our busy season, requiring extra pilots on payroll, otherwise know as FEATHERBEDDING." Also, many of my colleagues know I post here. They smile and tell me I am wasting my time, that there is very little rational life out there in the universe.

 

[imacdog]

Again, the company's hands are not tied. They may subcontract on as many days as they wish. Why you are not understanding this is beyond me.

 

[G4dude]

Again, the company's hands are not tied. They may subcontract on as many days as they wish. Why you are not understanding this is beyond me.

Really? Then what is the union's concern? What is the problem, specifically? I used to only not understand how unions think the way they do, now I don't even understand WHAT they are thinking.

 

[brokeflyer]

Really? Then what is the union's concern? What is the problem, specifically? I used to only not understand how unions think the way they do, now I don't even understand WHAT they are thinking.

you dont understand. What would you say if the company wanted to terminate you because they can get someone to fly your plane for $30k cheaper than they paid you? Or I should say, they can hire someone who negotiated a cheaper rate than you?

how would you feel about that?