well that was quick.....

[BentOver]

I extended one day in the last 5 years, last December, and had the support of the Eboard. Don't even spread BS about things you know not.

That's nice. You decided to extend the during the one time period where you should not have.

But like you say, there are many many more who are doing the same thing. But unfortunately, or fortunately, you atleast have the dignity to admit it. Which I can atleast somewhat respect.

As far as the E-board, like I said earlier, you know full well they can not and will not tell you NOT to extend. As you definitely know, that would be considered an illegal job action by the Union.

 

[imacdog]

Of course the union can't say don't extend. It does take a minute amount of intelligence to read between the lines and realize extending is something you don't do when people are on furlough.

This was directed at Pervis.

 

[Pervis]

The 750 was pretty high in the ranking. Way to go team!

The 750 had the second highest number of duty days, and ranked 5th in voluntary extended days. In fact, less than 100 voluntary extended days out of over 35,000 duty days flown. A number more telling would be how many extended days were offered-vs-accepted. Considering the 750 is one of the busiest fleets, I'll bet that would be an eye openner.

BTW, I did not contribute to the VED's 2011, and I am in the 750. In fact, I don't recall any invites to extend, but I would have refused. I made that clear when I discussed my situation last December, both on the union board and on the furloughed board. If that's not good enough for some, so be it.

 

[imacdog]

Yes but even you argued that long-range flying is somehow different and requires more extended days. Fair enough, take away the EX, GIV and GV and now the X is the second highest. Bringing me back to my point, you don't voluntarily extend when your coworkers are on furlough.

 

[X-rated]

I realize the G5 does a lot of extended international trips, but if 7 day tours don't work, the company needs to go back to the negotiating table.

Opec,

You either don't understand the travel costs and logistical challenges associated with long range international flying, or haven't fully thought the issue through. The costs are tremendous and are ultimately passed on to the owners. Even if you foolishly believe your owners are willing to pay anything, how do you think they'll feel about waiting around for a day or two while their relief pilot tries to catch up to the airplane because it changed it's itinerary while the relief pilot sat on a 14 hour flight to the wrong city? International flying isn't like going to Teterboro where there are dozens of guys waiting to rotate onto your airplane. However, if you really think driving more owners away will somehow help get you back to work, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

The most important thing your brothers can do to get you back to work is take care of the owners. If they stop doing that, you have absolutely no chance.

 

[Pervis]

Yes but even you argued that long-range flying is somehow different and requires more extended days. Fair enough, take away the EX, GIV and GV and now the X is the second highest. Bringing me back to my point, you don't voluntarily extend when your coworkers are on furlough.

I was refering to the GLC, more specifically, the V/550. I would not consider coast to coast, or Europe for that matter, long range in this discussion.

The problem is company could excercise 8-10 day schedules per CBA 19.9, yet choose not to. The real question is why does management choose the higher cost factor between the two? I'll bet you "Know" the answer.

 

[waka]

Like I said, you're funny about you remember. I rubbed shoulders with this guy for over three years. You want to use nuances with language? I knew his family and went to to the funeral and was there when they buried his urn. That's close enough for me.

Was also close enough to know the impact he had on YOUR career and pretty much every pilot on this board that didn't come up through military flying.

Nuances of language? :laugh: Please! You sound like a politician! :laugh: I see you spend about 70% of your efforts to back-pedal out of your clearly exposed lies of which 30% of your efforts are spent on telling them.

I suppose your little theory has something to do with your past statements about how management should be credited with safety in flight operations. No, you, your supposedly suicidal buddy or coworker or whatever you claim him to be this week along with your other middle manager cronies has had zero impact "every pilot on this board". How arrogant.

Now. YOU on the other hand won't comment on the rest of the post because you're gutless, like all of your other union buddies.

First, you're one to talk about not addressing points and questions that many have posted here. The difference is that the points you have dodged actually have validity.

Comment on the rest of the post. You tell me why the bottom third of the seniority list is meaningless and why YOU feel it's ok for them to lose their incomes and careers to save those that did nothing more than get hired before them. Doesn't mean they are better pilots, just means they got hired first. Seniority doesn't protect the company, does not protect the traveling public, does not protect the passengers in the airplane or those around them.

What a stupid straw man question. This is a prime example of why people don't answer everything you bring up.

Your gutless Waka. I stand by my words. I used the words "CLOSE FRIENDS to also accomodate for the other people I mentioned. Maybe it was because I care about those around me and all you care about is your paycheck and not the welfare of those around you.

As a coward with wimpy ethics, you clearly lack the conviction to stand by anything. Your attempted word games and back-pedaling your way out of your exposed lies is like trying to put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube.

You care? Ha! You only care about protecting your little ego and the identity you get from being an online union buster. BTW; You suck at it.

But what I do know is that a man is dead because of union activity and you think it's a joke.

You're the joke, not to mention a coward for using someone else's alleged suicide and being their self-declared spokesman.

Done with this subject.

No you're not. You're fragile ego can't stand the idea of not having the last word. Be my guest. Sometimes I get amusement from your lies and obfuscations.

 

[waka]

Agreed, my last post is an attempt to get it back on track, but we both know it's not going to happen.

They are more concerned about how I blended "friend" and "coworker" rather than the fact thier union didn't protect thier fellow pilots in a time of need.

Your last post an attempt to get this thread back on track???:laugh:

 

[wacoflyr]

You two need to get a room.

 

[CA1900]

You two need to get a room.

At a motel with non-union, "guest worker" labor. :laugh:

 

[OPECJet]

Opec,

You either don't understand the travel costs and logistical challenges associated with long range international flying, or haven't fully thought the issue through. The costs are tremendous and are ultimately passed on to the owners. Even if you foolishly believe your owners are willing to pay anything, how do you think they'll feel about waiting around for a day or two while their relief pilot tries to catch up to the airplane because it changed it's itinerary while the relief pilot sat on a 14 hour flight to the wrong city? International flying isn't like going to Teterboro where there are dozens of guys waiting to rotate onto your airplane. However, if you really think driving more owners away will somehow help get you back to work, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

The most important thing your brothers can do to get you back to work is take care of the owners. If they stop doing that, you have absolutely no chance.

I had posted that if 7 day schedules don't work in the long haul dept then the company needs to negotiate something with the pilot group (it's buried in one of these posts). I can see where the need would lie. I did not realize the contract already has a provision for longer tours the company isn't using.

I would bet those extended days all went to the same few guys over and over to boot.

Guys, Pervis had already stated, defended, and explained his reason for extending last year. It was hashed out and everything was rosy until the topic comes up again. Man up and let it lie. He did....

 

[gutshotdraw]

The Bubba Club is alive and well OPEC and the same names* seem to pop up in conjunction with trips that simply can't be done in seven days and extended days are the most cost efficient solution. When there are three pilots on the crew, the extended day statistics add up that much faster. Believe me, they're not asking people in the GLC to extend in order to do more Teterboro to West Palm turns or else I'd be turning them down constantly.

I was also not aware of 19.9 in the CBA apparently allowing for 8-10 day tours. Perhaps the start dates for such a plan are too rigid to be useful. Extending ain't my thing but my basic point is that there is a legitimate, cost-based, business justification for the skewed VED numbers in the GLC. At a guess, 80% or more of the GLC extended days are tied to International itineraries where airline crew swaps are off the hook expensive.

*BTW, the Bubbas are welcome to all the international they want as far as I'm concerned. I'll take VNY and BFI and LAS and even PBI all day long. Er, as long as they throw in the occasional Hawaii. Like say, today.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Okay, I just got done reading section 19.9. Well, I had to wait a few minutes for the glaze of legalese to clear from my eyes.

As suspected, the section is SO complicated to comply with that, if enacted, the grievances would be thicker than the tourists in a Beijing knock-off shopping mall.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen. Extended days for long international trips is going to be the paradigm. It skews the numbers and makes the GLC look like a bunch of greedy, furloughed-pilot-hating primmadonnas* but the alternative of airline crew swaps in Timbuktu is NOT a good business model.




*already the belief for some around NJA....

 

[G4dude]

Of course the union can't say don't extend. It does take a minute amount of intelligence to read between the lines and realize extending is something you don't do when people are on furlough.

This was directed at Pervis.

If pilots don't extend, the cost of the business model goes up by requiring overstaffing, rendering the company less profitable and endangering our jobs. How does increasing NJA's overhead secure pilots' jobs? Alternately, NJA would have to raise fees to the owners, rendering us uncompetitive, allowing our competitors to make inroads with our owners, costing us jobs. Featherbedding always costs jobs, long term.

 

[pilotyip]

If pilots don't extend, the cost of the business model goes up by requiring overstaffing, rendering the company less profitable and endangering our jobs. How does increasing NJA's overhead secure pilots' jobs? Alternately, NJA would have to raise fees to the owners, rendering us uncompetitive, allowing our competitors to make inroads with our owners, costing us jobs. Featherbedding always costs jobs, long term.

Stop that! this is FI, we do not deal in reality on this site, only in the fantasy world of ferry god-mothers who give us anything we want, because we want it.

 

[rajflyboy]

integration

more IBB debauchery

 

[OPECJet]

If pilots don't extend, the cost of the business model goes up by requiring overstaffing, rendering the company less profitable and endangering our jobs. How does increasing NJA's overhead secure pilots' jobs? Alternately, NJA would have to raise fees to the owners, rendering us uncompetitive, allowing our competitors to make inroads with our owners, costing us jobs. Featherbedding always costs jobs, long term.

If pilots don't extend then the company would be forced to negotiate something that works. No one is saying the company doesn't need / require / deserve relief on scheduling the GV crews. This is something that could be done in short order. The rub is the company would rather negotiate with individual pilots outside the scope of the CBA. I find it highly likely the company would find financial and operational benefit from negotiating scheduling relief. They would rather divide the pilot group. Given the current makeup of both sides, NJA is going to sink if this keeps up.

 

[NachoMamma]

If pilots don't extend, the cost of the business model goes up by requiring overstaffing, rendering the company less profitable and endangering our jobs. How does increasing NJA's overhead secure pilots' jobs? Alternately, NJA would have to raise fees to the owners, rendering us uncompetitive, allowing our competitors to make inroads with our owners, costing us jobs. Featherbedding always costs jobs, long term.

Exactly...so here's the million dollar question: Why on Earth are 95% of our GIV pilots Captains? Talk about overstaffing! Our GIV overhead is approximately double what it should be due to a near 100% PIC staffing "good ol boys" club decision that was made by the EMT. If they were really worried about saving money and being competitive, they would exercise their contractual rights within the CBA, announce the fleet in disposal status, and DOWNGRADE 40% of these incredibly junior pilots immediately. Total savings...over $5 Million annually. That should cut down on the "featherbedding".

 

[imacdog]

Stop that! this is FI, we do not deal in reality on this site, only in the fantasy world of ferry god-mothers who give us anything we want, because we want it.

Reality also said "Let's fire all of our DA-20 pilots since that fleet is in disposal and let all the DC-9 pilots, no matter their company seniority, keep their jobs". Worked pretty well for your company. Oh wait, am I not supposed to talk about that reality anymore?

 

[pilotyip]

Reality also said "Let's fire all of our DA-20 pilots since that fleet is in disposal and let all the DC-9 pilots, no matter their company seniority, keep their jobs". Worked pretty well for your company. Oh wait, am I not supposed to talk about that reality anymore?

I love this you are so funny. Now that may well be reality, but you post this as though I have any influence on what upper management decides to do. My reality is sitting in a cockpit at my union airline, hearing about how unhappy another pilot is, and that he deserves this and he deserves that. Me I was just happy to have a job, and was worried management would go, I am not putting up with this crap.