well that was quick.....

[imacdog]

But what I do know is that a man is dead because of union activity and you think it's a joke.

Not a joke B, just another one of your lies.

 

[imacdog]

You mean like the IBT taking dues out of my severance pay when my airline went out of business. Then telling that they had no obligation to assist any of us in our job search, you mean that kind of union stuff.

Good to see you around here again, YIP. Is it time again to remind everyone of how your non-union company totally screwed over your pilots, firing people who were on a certain fleet type no matter how long they were with the company, allowing pilots junior to them to keep their jobs just because of the equipment type they were on? You must have been very proud of that, saving your company some extra training costs!

 

[CA1900]

You mean like the IBT taking dues out of my severance pay when my airline went out of business. Then telling that they had no obligation to assist any of us in our job search, you mean that kind of union stuff.

And yet my union, NJASAP, refunded all the dues the furloughees paid, and tried to help with job searches.

Not all unions are the same.

 

[pilotyip]

Good to see you around here again, YIP. Is it time again to remind everyone of how your non-union company totally screwed over your pilots, firing people who were on a certain fleet type no matter how long they were with the company, allowing pilots junior to them to keep their jobs just because of the equipment type they were on? You must have been very proud of that, saving your company some extra training costs!

Shows how much you know, I was against that, I wanted strict seniority, but when your boss says no this is the way we are doing it. You go along, it is a military thing following orders no matter how bad they are, as long as they are not illegal. BTW That policy has been changed by the new DO. Stick seniority in all layoffs, which probably won't be necessary with everyone getting jobs at Spirit, Atlas, etc.

 

[imacdog]

What do you mean, shows what I know? That's what your company did, did it not? This is the type of thing a union prevents, YIP. Be proud of your non-union company's actions.

 

[pilotyip]

What do you mean, shows what I know? That's what your company did, did it not? This is the type of thing a union prevents, YIP. Be proud of your non-union company's actions.

It just sounded like you were blaming me for something I did not do or support. It is only my company because I work there I have very little input other than saying this guy can't fly. BTW After the failed UAW organizing drive in 2003 the company took the Toyota approach. That is be better than the union competetion so your workers won't want a union. I helped write pilot policy handbook put everything in writing and so far the company has lived by the rules

 

[imacdog]

Sorry YIP but all the time you spent on a pilot policy handbook is completely worthless if they do not have a collective bargaining contract to enforce it. Everything you wrote can and will be changed by management to their satisfaction. That is what you want though, isn't it? Management having the ability to do whatever they please without a union getting in the way with pesky contracts?

 

[pilotyip]

Sorry YIP but all the time you spent on a pilot policy handbook is completely worthless if they do not have a collective bargaining contract to enforce it. Everything you wrote can and will be changed by management to their satisfaction. That is what you want though, isn't it? Management having the ability to do whatever they please without a union getting in the way with pesky contracts?

Not at all, I tried my hardest to make it a good place to work with whatever influence I had as a recruiter and training guy. In many ways a union contract would have been easier to manage the pilots, easier to discipline, easier to fire, it establishes very clear cut rules. But the uppers did not want that, so as a good soldier I charge up whatever hill they wanted. Thing that bugged me about being in a union. for the union guys nothing was ever good enought for them, there always had to be an issue.

I established one the finest training programs that ever eixsited at the lower end of the airline industry. I have seen the guys I hired and trained go on to career jobs at DAL, UAL, UPS, FedEx, NJ etc. Many have stayed in touch with me; thanking me for giving them the foundation that allowed them to succeed at next level. They have also told me that the training at their next job in most cases was no better than what they got under my watch. And in many cases much worse. That is what life is all about mentoring, giving to others to see them succeed. That is all that matters my scoreboard.

 

[imacdog]

easier to fire

Actually your company proved it quite easy to fire whoever they wanted when business slowed down.

 

[OPECJet]

On a lighter note... Way to go GV guys (and all the other company w************************* picking up voluntary extended days). Thankfully there are more pilots not participating than are. Expect of course in the GV. Wouldn't surprise me if there are brown stains on the radomes....

 

[BentOver]

The Gulfstream guys sure appear to be NJA's weakest link.

But the rest are pretty sad too...... Nearly a 1000 extended days accepted.. Unreal... I've never been less proud to be a former NJA pilot. Always thought it was the airline guys who ate their young.. Apparently that trickles down to NJA pilots also.

If we ever return I will definitely be all for one.. The "one" being myself.

 

[OPECJet]

We're not going to get the chance. If the extenders are the guys with furlough targets on their backs, I'm cool with that. If not, you're trash.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I was shocked by those numbers too Opec. Mainly because I haven't flown or even been offered an extended day in almost THREE YEARS.

But you see, I am not an international bubba. And as someone else from the fleet tried to point out on that OTHER board, the long international itineraries actually do necessitate some extended days to make them work. A BE400 driver claimed there is no reason for the statistics to be so skewed. He couldn't be more wrong and it betrays a total lack of understanding about the GLC mission.

I'm on 7-7 and I don't extend. But have you looked at who comprises the VAST majority of 18 day line holders in the GLC? Enlightening. As long as there are people on the 18 day schedule, I'm not going to throw rocks at extenders.

 

[OPECJet]

I was shocked by those numbers too Opec. Mainly because I haven't flown or even been offered an extended day in almost THREE YEARS.

But you see, I am not an international bubba. And as someone else from the fleet tried to point out on that OTHER board, the long international itineraries actually do necessitate some extended days to make them work. A BE400 driver claimed there is no reason for the statistics to be so skewed. He couldn't be more wrong and it betrays a total lack of understanding about the GLC mission.

I'm on 7-7 and I don't extend. But have you looked at who comprises the VAST majority of 18 day line holders in the GLC? Enlightening. As long as there are people on the 18 day schedule, I'm not going to throw rocks at extenders.

Gut, I thought about that and my thinking is that the A Team is alive and well. I realize the G5 does a lot of extended international trips, but if 7 day tours don't work, the company needs to go back to the negotiating table.

 

[G4dude]

I was shocked by those numbers too Opec. Mainly because I haven't flown or even been offered an extended day in almost THREE YEARS.

But you see, I am not an international bubba. And as someone else from the fleet tried to point out on that OTHER board, the long international itineraries actually do necessitate some extended days to make them work. A BE400 driver claimed there is no reason for the statistics to be so skewed. He couldn't be more wrong and it betrays a total lack of understanding about the GLC mission.

I'm on 7-7 and I don't extend. But have you looked at who comprises the VAST majority of 18 day line holders in the GLC? Enlightening. As long as there are people on the 18 day schedule, I'm not going to throw rocks at extenders.

What is it about the 18 day pilots that would be enlightening?

 

[BentOver]

I was shocked by those numbers too Opec. Mainly because I haven't flown or even been offered an extended day in almost THREE YEARS.

But you see, I am not an international bubba. And as someone else from the fleet tried to point out on that OTHER board, the long international itineraries actually do necessitate some extended days to make them work. A BE400 driver claimed there is no reason for the statistics to be so skewed. He couldn't be more wrong and it betrays a total lack of understanding about the GLC mission.

I'm on 7-7 and I don't extend. But have you looked at who comprises the VAST majority of 18 day line holders in the GLC? Enlightening. As long as there are people on the 18 day schedule, I'm not going to throw rocks at extenders.

It's atleast a little better to know that it's being discussed on your side of NJASAP. Our side is losing many of the people who used to post. Most have probably moved on or just don't care any more. Either way, there is very little discussion going on our side.

 

[Pervis]

What is it about the 18 day pilots that would be enlightening?

Nothing earth shattering. Some would argue that it provides an extra 2.8 days/month per pilot on that schedule, and if no one bid it, company would be forced to consider recalling pilots.

The fact is the schedule can only be reduced up to 10% every bid period, so it would take years for that schedule to go away, even with 100% participation.

Before anyone gets all hell bent over the GLC folks, read section 19.9 of the CBA regarding international flying. Management refuses to use that provision, and instead elects to pay those folks extended days. And if you think airlining crews around the planet makes more economic sense, I'm just glad you're not in management, or none of us would have a job.

 

[BentOver]

Nothing earth shattering. Some would argue that it provides an extra 2.8 days/month per pilot on that schedule, and if no one bid it, company would be forced to consider recalling pilots.

The fact is the schedule can only be reduced up to 10% every bid period, so it would take years for that schedule to go away, even with 100% participation.

Before anyone gets all hell bent over the GLC folks, read section 19.9 of the CBA regarding international flying. Management refuses to use that provision, and instead elects to pay those folks extended days. And if you think airlining crews around the planet makes more economic sense, I'm just glad you're not in management, or none of us would have a job.

says the man who contributed to the 1000 extended days.... sorry Pervis, I am thoroughly disgusted with a large portion of this pilot group. Gloves are off towards anyone who voluntarily extends. Or supports the idea.

Hopefully SIC's will use peer pressure to their advantage and stop this total lack of solidarity.

Like M.L. says. NJA managment has the tools, the market share, and the money coming in. They DO NOT need pilots to extend to make the operation work. It is not the pilots job to cover their lack of management. It has already been shown that extending will not keep owners. Or else we wouldn't be seeing owners still leaving more than they are coming in. That theory went out the window a long time ago.

As far as the 18 day schedule. It would take a long time for it to be dwindled down. But that doesn't mean there needs to be 100% participation every bid period. And I'd bet there are still guys bidding it who can't hold it. Kinda like a Packers season ticket. The line is long...

 

[imacdog]

The 750 was pretty high in the ranking. Way to go team!

 

[Pervis]

says the man who contributed to the 1000 extended days.... sorry Pervis, I am thoroughly disgusted with a large portion of this pilot group. Gloves are off towards anyone who voluntarily extends. Or supports the idea.

I extended one day in the last 5 years, last December, and had the support of the Eboard. Don't even spread BS about things you know not.