Virgin America Revenue...

[ualdriver]

I believe that guys are waiting to see what the company comes up with for our next raise. It is widely expected to be announced soon. I also think most guys think we will get closer to JetBlue faster if we stay union-free, as opposed to locking in our pay while we negotiate for years as the company drags their feet.

Not saying I agree, just trying to answer your question.

Do you really thing your airline can afford to pay ANYONE a raise at your airline? You guys should be offering pay cuts, if anything.

 

[jayme]

okaaay...?

Seems we're getting slammed from every direction.

Peace!

 

[ualdriver]

okaaay...?

Seems we're getting slammed from every direction.

Peace!

It's not a slam. They just can't afford to pay you a raise. Just as I was forced down to a lower "wage tier" due to the competition, you guys unfortunately are going to have to face the reality (unless things change drastically) that VA can't afford to pay you the "wage tier" you're in now if you hope to grow by undercutting airline like mine.

If all employees on the VA property took about a 50% pay cut, you would have broken even (+/-) over the past 3 quarters. You guys need to step up the plate.

 

[PCL_128]

ualdriver, you aren't being serious are you? You don't really want them to "step up to the plate" I hope. Their wages are horrible. If the company can't afford to stay in business on what they're paying them, then time to shut the doors.

 

[ualdriver]

ualdriver, you aren't being serious are you? You don't really want them to "step up to the plate" I hope. Their wages are horrible. If the company can't afford to stay in business on what they're paying them, then time to shut the doors.

Tongue firmly planted in cheek as I type the above. Believe me, as the airline they were directly trying to undercut and steal market share from with their SFO based, non-union pilot compensation packages, I would have as much problem with them closing their doors as they would if they grew at United's expense out of SFO and put more of our guys on the street.

 

[PCL_128]

Gotcha. I figured, but just wanted to make sure.

 

[satlol]

Tongue firmly planted in cheek as I type the above. Believe me, as the airline they were directly trying to undercut and steal market share from with their SFO based, non-union pilot compensation packages, I would have as much problem with them closing their doors as they would if they grew at United's expense out of SFO and put more of our guys on the street.

I'll make sure to pass those thoughts along to both of your furloughed United brethren in my new-hire class. At least you are an equal opportunity hater...

 

[ualdriver]

I'll make sure to pass those thoughts along to both of your furloughed United brethren in my new-hire class. At least you are an equal opportunity hater...

Tell them I hope they can return to UAL quickly before that place implodes.

 

[satlol]

Tell them I hope they can return to UAL quickly before that place implodes.

One of them took his first recall just to get furloughed again when United imploded in 2008. Since he bypassed this lastest recall, I'm sure his take is quite different than yours.

 

[ualdriver]

One of them took his first recall just to get furloughed again when United imploded in 2008. Since he bypassed this lastest recall, I'm sure his take is quite different than yours.

If he thinks his future is more secure at VA then more power to him. The guys below him on the seniority list at UA I am sure applaud his decision. I think he made a big mistake.

 

[satlol]

I think he made a big mistake.

I never said he wouldn't take the next recall offered; I'm guessing he probably will. Please don't falsely generalize my statements in an attempt to validate your position on the subject.

 

[NEDude]

Tongue firmly planted in cheek as I type the above. Believe me, as the airline they were directly trying to undercut and steal market share from with their SFO based, non-union pilot compensation packages, I would have as much problem with them closing their doors as they would if they grew at United's expense out of SFO and put more of our guys on the street.

Said from a guy whose union has allowed its company to outsource its jobs to a non-union carrier (Skywest) and furlough nearly 1500 pilots.

Hypocrite

Come to think of it, isn't Alaska taking advantage of its ALPA allowed scope release to outsource jobs to a non-union carrier (Skywest) as well. Hmmm, perhaps the hypocrite tag applies to our friend fubijaakr as well.

 

[ualdriver]

Said from a guy whose union has allowed its company to outsource its jobs to a non-union carrier (Skywest) and furlough nearly 1500 pilots.

Hypocrite

Come to think of it, isn't Alaska taking advantage of its ALPA allowed scope release to outsource jobs to a non-union carrier (Skywest) as well. Hmmm, perhaps the hypocrite tag applies to our friend fubijaakr as well.

Don't forget we also allowed the company to furlough 2172 pilots before that. We all had a meeting at the UAL ALPA union offices on both occasions and determined that we had too many pilots. UAL ALPA then made the decision to furlough the pilots.

 

[Lake Alice]

The airline based on orders, retirements or other factors decides to hire. In '99 Usair was hiring 100 month. By 2000 they had significant furloughs. Unions do not have say in staffing an airline. Furloughs are the airlines fault, not the union.

UAL is simply stating what everyone else is thinking. You want your own airline to survive. You want to feed your own family. You want the opportunity to retire. If all this comes at the expense of another airline then...

All of us are having difficulty with the above because of airlines like SWA, VX, B6, SkyBus, Allegiant and all the other low cost carriers.

 

[NEDude]

The airline based on orders, retirements or other factors decides to hire. In '99 Usair was hiring 100 month. By 2000 they had significant furloughs. Unions do not have say in staffing an airline. Furloughs are the airlines fault, not the union.

UAL is simply stating what everyone else is thinking. You want your own airline to survive. You want to feed your own family. You want the opportunity to retire. If all this comes at the expense of another airline then...

All of us are having difficulty with the above because of airlines like SWA, VX, B6, SkyBus, Allegiant and all the other low cost carriers.

That is what happens in a deregulated free market my friend. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Don't forget that ALPA (okay since you are going to get technical - the individual ALPA pilot groups) have been allowing outsourcing well before the likes of JetBlue, Allegiant and Virgin America arrived on the scene. Imagine what things would look like if all of those RJs had been flying at mainline with mainline work rules/wages/benefits? Imagine if all of us who slogged it out for years at the regionals were instead working for legacy carriers. How many of us would be available to fill the pilot ranks of Virgin, Allegiant and Jet Blue if we were all at United, Delta or American instead of living on welfare while flying for Chatauqua, Sky West or Comair?

Oh, and I thought union negotiated work rules DID play a role in staffing requirements. Silly me.

 

[PCL_128]

Said from a guy whose union has allowed its company to outsource its jobs to a non-union carrier (Skywest) and furlough nearly 1500 pilots.

You keep saying that "the union" did these things, while not acknowledging that the union is the pilots, not some nebulous entity in a faraway land. ualdriver and every other line pilot at UAL got a vote on that issue. You don't have a vote on anything. Which sounds better? Voting rights or no voting rights on your future?

 

[NEDude]

You keep saying that "the union" did these things, while not acknowledging that the union is the pilots, not some nebulous entity in a faraway land. ualdriver and every other line pilot at UAL got a vote on that issue. You don't have a vote on anything. Which sounds better? Voting rights or no voting rights on your future?

I have plenty of voting rights on my future. If things go bad I can vote for a union (gasp - I have before - in fact was part of an ALPA organizing committee!!!!!), or I can vote with my feet. You act like I am a victim of indentured servitude and have absolutely no opportunity to ever vote for anything. Get real.

Since you are splitting hairs I will go along with you. The PILOTS who are union members and work for United and Alaska have voted, through their union, to outsource their own jobs to non-union carriers. Feel better now?

 

[Lake Alice]

I have plenty of voting rights on my future. If things go bad I can vote for a union (gasp - I have before - in fact was part of an ALPA organizing committee!!!!!), or I can vote with my feet. You act like I am a victim of indentured servitude and have absolutely no opportunity to ever vote for anything. Get real.

Since you are splitting hairs I will go along with you. The PILOTS who are union members and work for United and Alaska have voted, through their union, to outsource their own jobs to non-union carriers. Feel better now?

I always love this comment. Also the "if you don't like it leave" version. If the union votes for it then that the unions prerogative.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The RJ mentality in full flower....

 

[Mamma]

I have plenty of voting rights on my future. If things go bad I can vote for a union (gasp - I have before - in fact was part of an ALPA organizing committee!!!!!), or I can vote with my feet. You act like I am a victim of indentured servitude and have absolutely no opportunity to ever vote for anything. Get real.

Since you are splitting hairs I will go along with you. The PILOTS who are union members and work for United and Alaska have voted, through their union, to outsource their own jobs to non-union carriers. Feel better now?

I don't recall voting on outsourcing any flying at Alaska Airlines. When did this vote happen and how did our pilot group happen to not hear about it?