USAPA's Illegal Job Action Causing Pilot Terminations.

[Bringupthebird]

I wish! The nic would really screw me if they downsize PHX which is what most of us eastinfections think will happen. We really do think that LAS and PHX aren't very profitable and our Tempe heros will close down PHX like they did LAS.

Do most of you know how long LAS was a crew base? How long has PHX been a crew base? How does the east feel that US could be successful as an east-only airline when it couldn't in the past when it was easier to make money in the airline business.

C'mon let's look at things rationally for a change.

 

[weasel_lips]

PHX could very well become just a "focus city". It is the least profitable out of CLT,PHL,DCA, PHX. Mostly a leasure maret.....

 

[WickedPissa]

Ten Eastholes to be fired for listening to USAPA. I love it.

Regardless if they are "east", everyone taking an anti -east stand on the post and all other anti -east are pro-management. That is why the whole industry is the way it is. Why would anyone bash a pilot group over management? Go ahead and kiss ass to the man. Losers.

 

[WickedPissa]

Basically, west guys sitting back and letting the east men stand up and get a contract. Or are you happy with your paycheck? Pathetic. Do it right. Negotiate a payscale/contract, then bitch and moan about seniority. Management could care less. They won. Too late. Now make it work.

 

[WickedPissa]

Anyone that argues is a company man. Enough said. I am done.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Regardless if they are "east", everyone taking an anti -east stand on the post and all other anti -east are pro-management. That is why the whole industry is the way it is. Why would anyone bash a pilot group over management? Go ahead and kiss ass to the man. Losers.

Lets take a quick poll. Does anyone on this board think that being anti-USAPA means you are pro management? Seriously? What about being anti-USAPA for all of the chaos they have created over a lost arbitration?

 

[get2flyin]

Basically, west guys sitting back and letting the east men stand up and get a contract. Or are you happy with your paycheck? Pathetic. Do it right. Negotiate a payscale/contract, then bitch and moan about seniority. Management could care less. They won. Too late. Now make it work.

Wrong.

Regardless if they are "east", everyone taking an anti -east stand on the post and all other anti -east are pro-management. That is why the whole industry is the way it is. Why would anyone bash a pilot group over management? Go ahead and kiss ass to the man. Losers.

Also wrong.

Anyone that argues is a company man. Enough said. I am done.

You should totally throw a tantrum and hold your breath until you pass out. That would get the adults attention.

 

[Turtle21]

Lets take a quick poll. Does anyone on this board think that being anti-USAPA means you are pro management? Seriously? What about being anti-USAPA for all of the chaos they have created over a lost arbitration?

let's take a vote (on this message board) to see if we should be in favor of ignoring the vote of the pilots that already voted on an internal union matter.

 

[cactusboy53]

Mark P.S.- Let me guess, your a A330 captain and the Nic. does not affect you like everyone else who posts here.
I wish! The nic would really screw me if they downsize PHX which is what most of us eastinfections think will happen. We really do think that LAS and PHX aren't very profitable and our Tempe heros will close down PHX like they did LAS. I know you don't want to hear this but what USAPA did for us is delay the nic by many years so if/when you guys prevail in court (in many years) the retirements will offer a little lube to the screwing. You can ride my jumpseat anytime. If you search my posts you will see that I am never vulgar nor do I call others stupid names and try politely to express my opinion and what I think my other easties feel so I am not hiding behind my anonymous screen name. Have a peaceful Sunday afternoon.

So you aren't supporting DOH because it's the golden rule, but because you MBA-types believe that the little western town of 5+ Million (where the company headquarters are located) is going to close down the PHX base operations (and give away another city to SWAL)??

I really wish you would put a little more thought into your estimations.

Here is something to chew on. The Kirby Proposal is still on the table according to Parker. That is a wage increase for an East captain from $125 to $146 IMMEDIATELY, AND increases in 401K contributions, vactation time, time off, DH pay, Mechanical pay, etc.

No I AM NOT SAYING that I would vote for the KP. What I am saying is if you accept the KP with the Nicolau award as FACT (and you staff the NAC with someone who actually knows how to negotiate)....we could possibly achieve NB captain rates of $151 to $174 and WB captain rates of $190 to $217. Heck, JetBlue is presently paying $159 for Airbus and $143 for Embraer!!

Lurkers: If you know/believe that the Nicolau award will ultimately be the seniority list, then all you buying with your dues is DELAY. You are losing countless money and time off that you will never recover. Please visit us at www.reformusapa.com

There are three petitions that you need to read. If you agree with any or all of these petitions, please print them out and send them in to reformusapa ASAP.

Oh, BTW: Our NAC is presently negotiating AWAY (in the WRONG direction) from the KP!! How is that making things better??

Regards.

 

[charlie2]

One big problem with the KP is a lack of aircraft utilization rates. We currently have min rates in our contract and the company violated our contract to go below the minimum while we had pilots on furlough! If they would do it then I'm guessing they would really take advantage of it if it weren't even in the contract meaning furloughing pilots. Like you said Cactusboy, there are many other parts of it that need to to be negotiated so will the end result still be called the "Kirby Proposal" if every section is differant? It is so bad we have to start from scratch.

 

[cactusboy53]

One big problem with the KP is a lack of aircraft utilization rates. We currently have min rates in our contract and the company violated our contract to go below the minimum while we had pilots on furlough! If they would do it then I'm guessing they would really take advantage of it if it weren't even in the contract meaning furloughing pilots. Like you said Cactusboy, there are many other parts of it that need to to be negotiated so will the end result still be called the "Kirby Proposal" if every section is differant? It is so bad we have to start from scratch.

Charlie;
I'm trying to understand your rationalization. In a time that the economy is just starting to recover (ever so barely), and we are experiencing record loads & slight profits.....you are telling me that it's going to be DOH or Separate Operations w/ LOA 93 so as to hog tie the company to the keep aircraft utilization where it's at?

Again I say, our NAC is NEGOTIATING AWAY from many of the tenets of the KP. Why would anyone do that.....with the possible exception to "buy" a DOH contract from the company?? You will not get DOH, and USAPA is buying only DELAY with our dues money.

Our contract in PHX isn't too bad. The KP is basically that with some improvements. If USAPA would STOP chasing it's tail, we could all get a better contract with at least the DAL pay (working together).

BTW....DAL is getting ready to negotiate a SECOND contract after the merge with NWAL. The ONLY way LEGALLY to a new contract is the acceptance of the Nicolau award and a strong joint force at the negotiating table. It's your choice.....move forward or watch EVERYONE ELSE move well past you.

Any LCC Embraer Captains out there??? JETBLUE Embraer senior captains are making $143 and hour!!! American Eagle & Skywest are so tight on crew that they are paying 200-300% credit.....A $75 hour RJ captain is making $150-$225 an hour to move 50 people around in an RJ!

When will you be ready to move in the right direction?

 

[charlie2]

The KP also contains PBS which in previous posts I aknowledged that I need to take a close look at it but everyone I talk to/fly with is so dead set against it. Let's leave seniority or lack there of out of this for a second. The KP is so very bad in our eyes. Not to be disrespectful but AWA pilots were always very low in pay and benies compared to other 757 operators so I can see why the KP looks good to you guys but it looks really really bad to us. It was Mr. Kirbys job to propose crap to us.

 

[charlie2]

Oh and min utilization rates are critical.

 

[Bad-Andy]

Oh and min utilization rates are critical.

That cannot be emphasized enough. No min fleet count/ no min block hours, no contract (not DOH, Nic, or any other list). They will gut this place if they can, if for no other reason than to try in ernest for another merger...

 

[cactusboy53]

The KP also contains PBS which in previous posts I aknowledged that I need to take a close look at it but everyone I talk to/fly with is so dead set against it. Let's leave seniority or lack there of out of this for a second. The KP is so very bad in our eyes. Not to be disrespectful but AWA pilots were always very low in pay and benies compared to other 757 operators so I can see why the KP looks good to you guys but it looks really really bad to us. It was Mr. Kirbys job to propose crap to us.

Chuck;
I'm going to look for an actual PDF of what the KP proposal is exactly. My understanding is that is essentially the AWA contract with some improvements + a 3% increase in wage for the AWA folks (just under 18% increase for east senior folks).

Here is the link for the AWA contract (available on WINGS): https://wings.usairways.com/uswings/workgroups/flightops/WestContract2004a.pdf

Regarding PBS, here are some examples of what some vacation holders got with PBS in AUG:

Date Trip Check-in Flight(City) Layover Release Block Credit
---- -------- --------- ------------------- ------- -------- ------- ----
M 1 8301 4:30 PHX 0680(CLT) 18:28
T 2 " 0391(LAS)-0104(LAX) 18:54
W 3 " 0122(PHX)-0122(MKE) 14:47
T 4 " 0522(PHX)-0522(RNO)
" -0085(PHX) Th 14:28 21:57 21:57
F 5
S 6
S 7 8296 20:50 PHX 0689(EWR) 111
M 8 " 0497(CLT)-0497(DEN) 15:38
T 9 " 0073(PHX)-0269(SMF)
" -0268(PHX) Tu 21:17 15:43 15:45
W 10
T 11
F 12
S 13
S 14
M 15 VA 2:31
T 16 VA
W 17 VA
T 18 VA
F 19 VA
S 20 VA
S 21 VA Mo 2:29 25:40
M 22 VA 2:31
T 23 VA
W 24 VA
T 25 VA
F 26 VA
S 27 VA
S 28 VA Mo 2:29 25:40
M 29
T 30
W 31 (THAT'S 22 DAYS OFF IN A ROW WITH 8902 CREDIT!!!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TAFB : 130:25 Excess Credit: 00
Total Calendar Days Off : 10 Total Block : 37:40
Credit Range : [780 920] Total Credit : 8902
********************************************************
Date Trip Check-in Flight(City) Layover Release Block Credit
---- -------- --------- ------------------- ------- -------- ------- ----
M 1 C/I Mo 19:20 7:48 7:56
T 2
W 3
T 4 8716 160 PHX DH0092(PDX)
" -0505(CLT) 13:15
F 5 " 0377(SMF) 22:45
S 6 " 0378(CLT) 12:47
S 7 " 0309(PHX) Su 21:18 191 21:40
M 8 VA 2:31
T 9 VA
W 10 VA
T 11 VA
F 12 VA
S 13 VA
S 14 VA Mo 2:29 25:40
M 15
T 16
W 17
T 18
F 19
S 20
S 21
M 22 VA 2:31
T 23 VA
W 24 VA
T 25 VA
F 26 VA
S 27 VA
S 28 VA Mo 2:29 25:40
M 29
T 30
W 31 (THAT'S 24 DAYS OFF IN A ROW WITH 80:56 CREDIT!!!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TAFB : 9408 Excess Credit: 00
Total Calendar Days Off : 12 Total Block : 26:49
Credit Range : [780 920] Total Credit : 80:56
**********************************************************
Date Trip Check-in Flight(City) Layover Release Block Credit
---- -------- --------- ------------------- ------- -------- ------- ----
M 1 8386 6:40 PHX 0602(LAS)-0051(PHX)
" -0051(MSP) 12:55
T 2 " 0059(CLT)-0487(DEN) 15:36
W 3 " 0652(PHX)-0044(DCA) 145
T 4 " 0334(PHX) Th 9:30 22:33 22:33
F 5
S 6
S 7
M 8 8386 6:40 PHX 0602(LAS)-0051(PHX)
" -0051(MSP) 12:55
T 9 " 0059(CLT)-0487(DEN) 15:36
W 10 " 0652(PHX)-0044(DCA) 145
T 11 " 0334(PHX) Th 9:30 22:33 22:33
F 12
S 13
S 14
M 15 VA 2:31
T 16 VA
W 17 VA
T 18 VA
F 19 VA
S 20 VA
S 21 VA Mo 2:29 25:40
M 22
T 23
W 24
T 25
F 26
S 27
S 28 8415 7:30 PHX 0302(CLT)-0121(ORD) 114
M 29 " 0004(PHX)-0304(CLT) 13:33
T 30 " 0565(MCO) 21:19
W 31 " 0195(PHX) We 9:21 200 210(THAT'S 16 DAYS OFF IN A ROW WITH 91:46 CREDIT!!!)
----------------------------------------------------
TAFB : 223:31 Excess Credit: 00
Total Calendar Days Off : 12 Total Block : 656
Credit Range : [780 920] Total Credit : 91:46
*********************************************************
Date Trip Check-in Flight(City) Layover Release Block Credit
---- -------- --------- ------------------- ------- -------- ------- ----
M 1 8044 11:15 PHX 0612(ATL) 11:22
T 2 " 0308(CLT)-0029(ATL)
" -0029(PHX) Tu 12:50 10:11 10:30
W 3
T 4
F 5
S 6
S 7
M 8 VA 2:31
T 9 VA
W 10 VA
T 11 VA
F 12 VA
S 13 VA
S 14 VA Mo 2:29 25:40
M 15 VA 2:31
T 16 VA
W 17 VA
T 18 VA
F 19 VA
S 20 VA
S 21 VA Mo 2:29 25:40
M 22
T 23
W 24
T 25
F 26
S 27
S 28
M 29 8231 12:40 PHX 0450(SLC)-0128(PHX)
" -0128(MKE) 16:24
T 30 " 0454(PHX)-0454(SLC) 13:42
W 31 " 0490(PHX)-0490(DEN)
" -0491(PHX) We 19:29 170 170(THAT'S 26 DAYS OFF IN A ROW WITH 78:50 CREDIT!!!)
-------------------------------------------------------------
TAFB : 80:24 Excess Credit: 00
Total Calendar Days Off : 12 Total Block : 27:11
Credit Range : [780 920] Total Credit : 78:50

PBS is NOT a BAD thing. The keys to success is to be sure that your UNION retains specific control and you make sure that you have a few Subject Matter Experts (SME's) to make sure the company does NOT take advantage of your program. The other keys are to learn the system bidding. Seniority and bidding knowledge gets you what you can hold.

CB