Usapa has to go.

[BILL LUMBERG]

Boyfriend of an attorney Wave?

Wow.....What's his name?

 

[flygirlqt]

Well thank you... That really means a lot to me...

So as an attorney, you would advise a client to use and unofficial seniority list for a merger??

I would advise my client, especially at this stage of the game, that the list agreed to by both parties in binding arbitration is going to stand. Your hypothesis above and merely labeling it "unofficial" because you do not like the results does not change the legal exposure and minefield for anyone to accept anything but a previously agreed upon binding arbitration.

You have spent an awful lot of money and thereby made certain lawyers very wealthy that are telling you what you want to hear rather than what you need to listen to.

And how long have you been an attorney???? Or are you just back in school for such.

Just passed the bar, Georgetown Alumni.

 

[flygirlqt]

Somebody is continually selling a dream the east emotionally wants to believe.

That is how I view it as well.

 

[waveflyer]

Boyfriend of an attorney Wave?

Wow.....What's his name?

Really?
Did you know they let women be attorneys these days? They can go to court and everything- crazy, huh- I like my women smarter than me- keeps me learning and challenged- is a good thing-
As for the gay quip- that's not an insult to me at all- just happens to not be accurate in my case- but far from an insult caveman bill.

Nice drift though- what do you think of usapa's stand at BK wages? You're at delta- they're dragging you down too- what do you think?

 

[waveflyer]

Congrats flygirlqt- that's a big deal

 

[flygirlqt]

Congrats flygirlqt- that's a big deal

Thank you very much.

 

[BeCareful!]

My American friends are really hoping it's the Nic, because they think it would be really cool to fly with some young Captains who are hip and like to party. I told them "dude, those young guys with Super Seniority will be in your way for the rest of your career!" But they all say "dude...." And I go "dude...." And then we head for the bar.

 

[Crzipilot]

I would advise my client, especially at this stage of the game, that the list agreed to by both parties in binding arbitration is going to stand. Your hypothesis above and merely labeling it "unofficial" because you do not like the results does not change the legal exposure and minefield for anyone to accept anything but a previously agreed upon binding arbitration.

You have spent an awful lot of money and thereby made certain lawyers very wealthy that are telling you what you want to hear rather than what you need to listen to.



Just passed the bar, Georgetown Alumni.

Well first, I would imagine an schooling as an attorney would have taught you to keep your mouth shut unless you know all the facts (or have a reasonable knowledge the the predominate facts) of a case. The previously agreed upon binding arbitration was an internal process to determine a bargaining position of a contract. That party is no longer alive on property. Show me where the courts have hand tied parties on how they can bargain?

Second, what he was actually alluding to, was the MDA lawsuit, in which US has already confirmed those formerly MDA pilots were actually recalled US pilots. That little fact, results in ALPA agreeing to an illegal call back, and should have had about 500 more pilots listed as active and not furloughed. This alone would have changed the dynamics of this so called list NIC generated.


Hmmm....Last time I thought I saw you, you were with republic out of SDF, still waiting on daddy to use his contacts to get you in at UPS, because you were going to be a UPS capt before 30.......where do you fit it all in?

 

[Golden Falcon]

And the morale of the story is......they should have let USAir sink, and eat the pickings...

 

[Metrojet]

Oly;
I would ask the following questions:

1. How soon do you want a contract?
2. How much longer do you want to work under LOA 93?
3. How willing are you to get involved?

While voting out USAPA because it has been a dismal failure in its present form, the fact remains that WE could change the fabric and leadership of USAPA with enough votes in the next couple months. If we can accomplish that, we can move to change the CBL's and reconstruct the key committees (NAC, Merger, Communication, Grievance, etc) so as to return to the business of a new contract and a potential merger.


All of this can be done in less than 6 months. A card drive will last at least that long. Once a new CBA is voted in, it would take at least a year to reconstruct the hierarchy (ALPA for instance) and get back to the negotiating table. Waiting for ALPA to return and a new contract through ALPA would be a 1.5 to 3 year wait. That is TOO LONG!



While we await a new CBL drive, how about getting on board with changing USAPA into a TRUE INDEPENDENT UNION? Are you a MIG? That is the first step. Go to: www.reformusapa.com and complete the three petitions that help to change the CBA's constitution & bylaws.


Respectfully,
CB

Eric , er I mean CB

Why do you even care about LOA 93 - it is not the contract you operate under!
Lets be truthful here - you just want the Nic so you can take advantage of the attrition coming to the East pilots.

Although I am disappointed with many issues on the East - we are capturing our attrition quite fairly right now, and we don't plan on giving that up.

You should just be happy that your on a "better contract". If you really wanted to move forward with the East - why is their no discussions anymore about conditions and restrictions that we BOTH could live with. (for example - if a west pilot wants to bid East - he has to use DOH - if a East guys wants to bid West - he has to use Nic, and if we can get the company to agree to a minimum fleet and block hours for both East and West - do you think that could work?

If/when the judge rules in the latest court battle - either way - the courts cannot take away mine or YOUR right to vote for a CB.

I know we both agree we are ready to get a better contract for both - but at what cost?

Respectfully,
Metrojet

 

[flygirlqt]

Well first, I would imagine an schooling as an attorney would have taught you to keep your mouth shut unless you know all the facts (or have a reasonable knowledge the the predominate facts) of a case. The previously agreed upon binding arbitration was an internal process to determine a bargaining position of a contract. That party is no longer alive on property. Show me where the courts have hand tied parties on how they can bargain?

Second, what he was actually alluding to, was the MDA lawsuit, in which US has already confirmed those formerly MDA pilots were actually recalled US pilots. That little fact, results in ALPA agreeing to an illegal call back, and should have had about 500 more pilots listed as active and not furloughed. This alone would have changed the dynamics of this so called list NIC generated.


Hmmm....Last time I thought I saw you, you were with republic out of SDF, still waiting on daddy to use his contacts to get you in at UPS, because you were going to be a UPS capt before 30.......where do you fit it all in?

Your comments above have become a reductio ad absurdum. The delusion with law and distortions with the process are almost as great with who you think I am. I never flew for Republic, my father, RIP, was a rEAL pilot with zero contacts with UPS. Further, I have never stepped foot in the State of Kentucky.

At some point, even the dim bulbs among you are going to realize this SLI tantrum was over before it started with the agreement by all parties to binding arbitration. Sounds like you're in the select few that will be the exception.

 

[BoilerUP]

Got to love pilots who think they know the law better than legal professionals.

 

[B-atch]

Really?
Did you know they let women be attorneys these days? They can go to court and everything- crazy, huh- I like my women smarter than me- keeps me learning and challenged- is a good thing-
As for the gay quip- that's not an insult to me at all- just happens to not be accurate in my case- but far from an insult caveman bill.

Nice drift though- what do you think of usapa's stand at BK wages? You're at delta- they're dragging you down too- what do you think?

Hey Wave, enjoy YOUR carreer. Getting this emotionaly involved in OTHER peoples issues might cause your rising blood pressure to ruin your gameplan. Before you question another mans actions, try walking a mile in his shoes.

 

[doh]

Can you afford shoes on that pay?:laugh:

 

[B-atch]

Can you afford shoes on that pay?:laugh:

I still have a bit saved from pre loa93 to afford a few things. Besides the 767 intnl. pay will do just fine.

 

[dugan jones]

Your comments above have become a reductio ad absurdum. The delusion with law and distortions with the process are almost as great with who you think I am. I never flew for Republic, my father, RIP, was a rEAL pilot with zero contacts with UPS. Further, I have never stepped foot in the State of Kentucky.

At some point, even the dim bulbs among you are going to realize this SLI tantrum was over before it started with the agreement by all parties to binding arbitration. Sounds like you're in the select few that will be the exception.

so your father was a real pilot....does that make us all fake pilots?

 

[waveflyer]

Previous generations have been faltering for a while- but there was a time when pilots understood pattern bargaining.

(thx for my health concern- I am enjoying my career- and have a good perspective- I just don't appreciate the financial pressure usapa pilots put on swapa pilots- hmm- I'm sure virgin pilots don't appreciate the anchor on wages you've become-
Again flygirl is way more qualified- but changing your collective bargaining agent doesn't mean that the group who made an agreement does not exist. All you did was basically change your attorneys-
Ie: if you're convicted of murder- changing your attorney doesn't invalidate the conviction- and calling yourselves usapa now doesn't change the people involved or vacate the arbitration- it just gets strips alpa national of any voice in the matter
Flygrlqt- is that about right? (the gf's at work- so you got the amateur thinking here-)

 

[flygirlqt]

so your father was a real pilot....does that make us all fake pilots?

Obviously, you do not know the meaning of the intentional spelling and the history behind Eastern.

 

[flygirlqt]

Previous generations have been faltering for a while- but there was a time when pilots understood pattern bargaining.

(thx for my health concern- I am enjoying my career- and have a good perspective- I just don't appreciate the financial pressure usapa pilots put on swapa pilots- hmm- I'm sure virgin pilots don't appreciate the anchor on wages you've become-
Again flygirl is way more qualified- but changing your collective bargaining agent doesn't mean that the group who made an agreement does not exist. All you did was basically change your attorneys-
Ie: if you're convicted of murder- changing your attorney doesn't invalidate the conviction- and calling yourselves usapa now doesn't change the people involved or vacate the arbitration- it just gets strips alpa national of any voice in the matter
Flygrlqt- is that about right? (the gf's at work- so you got the amateur thinking here-)

It is a very good analogy and description Wave.

 

[FDJ2]

Again flygirl is way more qualified- but changing your collective bargaining agent doesn't mean that the group who made an agreement does not exist. All you did was basically change your attorneys-
Ie: if you're convicted of murder- changing your attorney doesn't invalidate the conviction- and calling yourselves usapa now doesn't change the people involved or vacate the arbitration- it just gets strips alpa national of any voice in the matter

It's like the story of the hippo.

http://youtu.be/Yb4vrWnRZE0

 

[B-atch]

Previous generations have been faltering for a while- but there was a time when pilots understood pattern bargaining.

(thx for my health concern- I am enjoying my career- and have a good perspective- I just don't appreciate the financial pressure usapa pilots put on swapa pilots- hmm- I'm sure virgin pilots don't appreciate the anchor on wages you've become-
Again flygirl is way more qualified- but changing your collective bargaining agent doesn't mean that the group who made an agreement does not exist. All you did was basically change your attorneys-
Ie: if you're convicted of murder- changing your attorney doesn't invalidate the conviction- and calling yourselves usapa now doesn't change the people involved or vacate the arbitration- it just gets strips alpa national of any voice in the matter
Flygrlqt- is that about right? (the gf's at work- so you got the amateur thinking here-)

If the "murder" conviction required MY vote and subsequent ratification for jail time to take effect, guess WHAT? Convincing 3400 pilots that the NIC is the sword that we must fall on, will cost Parker dearly. Remember time is on OUR side, not on Parker's. If this Nic is a potential hindrance in a future merger, I see the west being spun-off to make the deal. Stay tuned.

 

[ultrarunner]

so your father was a real pilot....does that make us all fake pilots?

Her father had the balls and integrity NOT to scab EAL!

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah, but it's not a murder- and there's no jail time- that's the wrong side of the analogy-
I think you have lawyers, again, and to their great benefit, telling you possibilities you want to believe-"So YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE??!"

It's a job- and as much as I happen to love swa- I fly my job for money-
Is there no intersection of the lack of QOL that goes with loa 93/ and the perceived lack of QOL that will go with implementation of Nic?

I think you guys have built up the Nic implementation to be far worse than it will actually be-

In picking battles- it seems to me that you've chosen a worse life for fear of a bad one under Nic- help me understand how Nic would be worse than all the years you've been living w/ loa 93

 

[Hpilot]

As an east guy, Usapa has to go, I can't tolerate loa 93 for another xxxx amount of year. Just my opinion. Somebody start a card drive to get alpa back.

At first as a westie I thought USAPA was great. They're so inept and incompetent it's funny. Now that they're negotiating a concessionary contract I don't find them as funny. Replaced or reformed, I agree.

 

[dugan jones]

Obviously, you do not know the meaning of the intentional spelling and the history behind Eastern.

my dad worked for eastern and kiwi so I do know this history, i thought you hit caps lock by mistake when trying to spell real....my bad

 

[Bringupthebird]

I see the west being spun-off to make the deal. Stay tuned.

"When you wish upon a star...."

Why not deal with reality as it exists today? How can these folks live lives diametrically opposed to the way they could possibly fly airplanes?

"Yeah, I know we don't have enough fuel to try another approach, but maybe a tanker is in the area and maybe..."

"Yeah, skipper, maybe there's something wrong with the DME and we're actually close enough to glide in.."

"I like how you think. But it's all that damn gravity's fault!"

" I hate gravity too, skip!"

"Brace brace brace!"

 

[B-atch]

my dad worked for eastern and kiwi so I do know this history, i thought you hit caps lock by mistake when trying to spell real....my bad

..Sory wrong line..

 

[flygirlqt]

my dad worked for eastern and kiwi so I do know this history, i thought you hit caps lock by mistake when trying to spell real....my bad

No problem.

 

[cactusboy53]

Eric , er I mean CB

Why do you even care about LOA 93 - it is not the contract you operate under!
Lets be truthful here - you just want the Nic so you can take advantage of the attrition coming to the East pilots.

Although I am disappointed with many issues on the East - we are capturing our attrition quite fairly right now, and we don't plan on giving that up.

You should just be happy that your on a "better contract". If you really wanted to move forward with the East - why is their no discussions anymore about conditions and restrictions that we BOTH could live with. (for example - if a west pilot wants to bid East - he has to use DOH - if a East guys wants to bid West - he has to use Nic, and if we can get the company to agree to a minimum fleet and block hours for both East and West - do you think that could work?

If/when the judge rules in the latest court battle - either way - the courts cannot take away mine or YOUR right to vote for a CB.

I know we both agree we are ready to get a better contract for both - but at what cost?

Respectfully,
Metrojet

MJ (Who ever you are);
I'm not Eric. He has much better things to do with his time than to unsuccessfully school you.

I "care" because I am attempting to communicate with the lurkers (who are not a part of the 18+ DOH Jhihadist minority) that would perhaps like to get out from under LOA93, and to a better contract.

I want a completed merger because I am sick and tired of the nonsense that spews from the rudderless ship we call USAPA. Guess what? I'm not the only one, AND those folks are not PHX based pilots.

We don't need much, just 600+ to move things back on track. Let's face it: Your group has attempted to evade the Nicolau award because you feel entitled to the attrition on the east coast bases, and it drives you NUTS that you can't ultimately get a court to see it your way.

You are right about the vote. I get one, you get one, and any MIG gets one. A ratified contract takes only 50% +1. The beauty of a ratified contract is that your co-worker can say..."Oh, I voted NO!", and you will NEVER now the difference.

My personal bar will be (at least) the AWA contract with the current DAL wage for various aircraft. I'll bet you a case of Samuel Adams that a contract like that would be ratified by 65% (at least).

The cost for a new contract is already too high: 10 Million on Seham's slam dunk, our 3+ million to defend a final and binding seniority list, the Hundreds of thousands spent on the RICO folly (and our money to defend it), the loss of 4+ years of contract improvements (you do realize that IF we had voted in a Kirby + 11% 3 years ago there would have been NO FURLOUGHS because we would have brought the east UP to our VACATION levels??), and the loss of 4+ years of additional wages. ALL FOR THE IMMORAL, UNETHICAL, AND ILL CONCEIVED CHASE FOR THE DOH GOLD STANDARD. What a pity.

See you in the voting booth. CB (Not Eric).

 

[B-atch]

That VOTE is further down the road than you might think.