Usapa has to go.

[Hpilot]

I'd be fascinated to know if the the majority of USAirways (east) pilots maintain today they are in a much better position (pay, QOL, whatever) than if a CBA had been negotiated SIX years ago after Nic spoke.

My assumption is yes, since they have been fighting ever since, new club, new legal, etc...

But it would be interesting to see the numbers...

It would be interesting to see those numbers. From what I've seen there are different groups. Some knew the NIC was final, but believed they could delay it, which they have. Another group truly believed that DOH and LOA93(pay restoration) were a reality. Yet another group are the pilots that were furloughed at the time of the merger and want it all, at any cost, no matter how much they harm the other east pilots or the west. The last group is lower that a scab. You can pretty much figure out which group an east pilot belongs to by the level of anger they exhibit.

 

[flygirlqt]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

No one can possibly be this ignorant. Keep dreaming and let us all know how it works out for you.

 

[vetrider]

I agree, in the event of a combined contract or merger the west will be downsized. Completely shut down? No. I realize that you are used to what has happened in the past aka PSA, but this is not the same management team that you had then, thank god. Remember what happened when US Air pulled out of the west and entrenched in it's money maker east hubs? That's right, multiple bankruptcies and near liquidation. An airline needs that east/west feed. Carriers like Alaska, have to rely on bigger carriers like Delta and American. Hey, that's it we'll shut down the west and becomes Delta and American's B!atches. As a side note, I think Alaska is a great airline, they just have to rely on the larger carriers, because of their size. Maybe Alaska will buy US Airways..... I can dream can't I.

I'll piggy back on your answer to B-atch, it's essentially what I was thinking. I'll only add that downsizing Phoenix doesnt necessarily equate to downsizing the airline, it could just mean moving crews with airplanes to east bases for scheduling flexibility due to the time zone factor. I freely admit to being the most amateur of all amateur 'analysts' though. The nic or nothing he referred to is not quite the way he paints it. The nic or nothing is not to gain a leg up, it's to keep a mob from cheating us out of the result of a fair process. We can argue airline economics all day, but the insinuation that the west is clinging to the nic being some kind of dirty pool is absurd.

 

[Hpilot]

I'll piggy back on your answer to B-atch, it's essentially what I was thinking. I'll only add that downsizing Phoenix doesnt necessarily equate to downsizing the airline, it could just mean moving crews with airplanes to east bases for scheduling flexibility due to the time zone factor. I freely admit to being the most amateur of all amateur 'analysts' though. The nic or nothing he referred to is not quite the way he paints it. The nic or nothing is not to gain a leg up, it's to keep a mob from cheating us out of the result of a fair process. We can argue airline economics all day, but the insinuation that the west is clinging to the nic being some kind of dirty pool is absurd.

Absolutely, we followed the set process and the Nic was the result.

I've read the same about scheduling, that having the majority of the pilots east helps, because of time zones.

 

[shon7]

aren't both sides just fatigued with all the fighting, back and forth, wage rates, hostility.

 

[Taco Rocket]

aren't both sides just fatigued with all the fighting, back and forth, wage rates, hostility.

I would say no.

Obviously everyone would like to earn more money, but I think most of the east guys still have some gas in that aux fuel tank to burn on this issue.

I think they will delay this for years unless a new deal is made.

Interesting to me is how these guys don't talk to each other. It's like junior high where the west guys are always up to speed on what the east is doing but the east just doesn't care...

 

[TWA Dude]

aren't both sides just fatigued with all the fighting, back and forth, wage rates, hostility.

Justice doesn't always come quickly. The East needs to pay for their treachery and malevolence. The West has no choice but to wait for the inevitable. Binding arbitration means binding even when one side hates the result.

 

[Crzipilot]

I see, and we are going to pay how????? I doubt with our seniority. Still have that pesky vote thing. Eventually when the stagnation stops on the west, and the upgrades slow down for the new hires on the east, you might see some start to want to vote something away. Until then, I don't think you have the numbers....Or the ability to get the company to pony up the money......

One or the other, I feel is what it's going to take. And I don't think you guys can deliver either. I keep hearing guys throw around Delta+ pay rates??? Really......you think you can get that out of the company.......Hardly.... So I doubt the majority east are going to vote for mere peanuts, and even the older guys I fly with aren't willing to sell their soul for a couple of Grand more a year, to sell their f/o's down the river. As it's been pointed out. Pretty much everyone has made adjustments in the past 10 yrs for the Post 9/11 contracts etc......so it isn't that big of a deal to them.

 

[Ocity]

I see, and we are going to pay how????? I doubt with our seniority. Still have that pesky vote thing. Eventually when the stagnation stops on the west, and the upgrades slow down for the new hires on the east, you might see some start to want to vote something away. Until then, I don't think you have the numbers....Or the ability to get the company to pony up the money......

One or the other, I feel is what it's going to take. And I don't think you guys can deliver either. I keep hearing guys throw around Delta+ pay rates??? Really......you think you can get that out of the company.......Hardly.... So I doubt the majority east are going to vote for mere peanuts, and even the older guys I fly with aren't willing to sell their soul for a couple of Grand more a year, to sell their f/o's down the river. As it's been pointed out. Pretty much everyone has made adjustments in the past 10 yrs for the Post 9/11 contracts etc......so it isn't that big of a deal to them.

Talk is cheap. Let's see a vote. I wouldn't be surprised if 50% +1 of the east pilots alone would vote FOR the Kirby proposal.

 

[Carl S.]

East pilots have all the power in this mess. They control when we move forward and only then. West pilots sit on the sidelines and watch the clown show go on and on. No change on the West since the process finished with the Nic., we are ready to move forward when East pilots run out of moves. Till then, enjoy USAPA's internal clown show and LOA 93,

 

[TWA Dude]

I see, and we are going to pay how?????

Dunno. We can't guarantee justice will be served. All we can do is continue to seek it. That "pesky vote" thing you brag about may become a moot point if circumstances far greater than your spite vote take over.

 

[Bringupthebird]

East pilots have all the power in this mess. They control when we move forward and only then.

Why do the west pilots and those on the east who are sick of paying for USAPA allow this? I agree that if those pilots choose to sit idly by and allow a minority to advance their agenda on our dime, then we deserve to suffer. USAPA cannot be reformed, only replaced, regardless of the time required to do so. The upcoming elections will likely replace one corrupt union leader with another, because the line pilots of US just don't care to take control of their own destiny.

The GPWS is blaring "TERRAIN, TERRAIN" and they can't be bothered to even click off the autopilot.

 

[Carl S.]

West pilots are ready to move on, with the SLI behind us and on to a new contract. The majority of East pilots do not want to move on and want a second bite at the apple, so West pilots must sit tight and wait till the East pilots are done banging their heads into the wall and are ready to move forward. Why sweat what you can not change, we just watch the USAPA clown show go on and on.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The admission to a second rate clown show is about $6000 a year out of my pocket, that's why. A real union would provide value for that money. And the sad part is, we could change it, but no one is willing to try.

 

[ableone]

I was picking up the release in CLT this morning when an east CA, who was non-reving in back, came up to me, introduced himself and said:

"I am an AOL contributor."

"Most of the rhetoric you hear from out here is from a very vocal, very loud, minority. These idiots have cost all of us a tremendous amount of money and you should no there is a sizable contingent of us who are done with this."

It went back and forth and I opined that I expected little to happen (contract wise) until we were involved in another merger. This is where he said something that really shocked me; "Maybe in the next merger we can put some of us in the east on the bottom of the combined list where they belong."

I have heard about these types of conversations taking place but this is the first one I have had.