Usapa has to go.

[waveflyer]

Yes, but what do you gain from delaying the inevitable- continued BK work rules, and wages?
You guys are literally operating under a regional contract-
You're like the regional pilot who doesn't leave for a major bc he doesn't want his seniority to be hurt-
Yet, day 1 at most majors is better than being senior at a regional-
On the same line- day 1 of a combined contract will be better than LOA93- you have to know that-
So why the fight?
I'd want some good work rules- I'd want a better $check-
And realistically, only a fraction of west pilots will come east for any reason-
Let's say that if 50% commute or move all the way across the country to fly the 330's- what will that actually mean in the scheme of things to justify such an expensive stand-
I don't see how you can possibly See any outcome for anyone that could be a win at this point-

 

[B-atch]

Yes, but what do you gain from delaying the inevitable- continued BK work rules, and wages?
You guys are literally operating under a regional contract-
You're like the regional pilot who doesn't leave for a major bc he doesn't want his seniority to be hurt-
Yet, day 1 at most majors is better than being senior at a regional-
On the same line- day 1 of a combined contract will be better than LOA93- you have to know that-
So why the fight?
I'd want some good work rules- I'd want a better $check-
And realistically, only a fraction of west pilots will come east for any reason-
Let's say that if 50% commute or move all the way across the country to fly the 330's- what will that actually mean in the scheme of things to justify such an expensive stand-
I don't see how you can possibly See any outcome for anyone that could be a win at this point-

Wave , I understand YOUR reasoning. What you fail to include in your thought process is this: The additional erosion of east pilot positions that the Nic award would inflict. It is no secret that when AWA merged with Airways their operating costs increased to a point were PHX is NO LONGER profitable!! Throw in $100/bar. oil and stiff competition from SW and other potential Lccs, and the yield margin turns to a steep loss. The overall perception on the East, is that when (if it ever happens) a common CBA is implemented, LCC will reduce ,if not shut down PHX. All these pilots with their Nic on hand will displace, bump, cause furlough to pilots that have been on the property for 25 years+.
You can throw ALL the money in the world at us, but if We perceive this scenario as a potential threat, NO ONE on the EAST will vote yes!! Any contractual improvements will be SHORT lived by many.
The current East CBA, as awful as it IS, provides JOB PROTECTION!! Something that a joint CBA, Nic inclusive, will fail to guarantee.
The West boyz know this. That's why its NIC or Nothing for them.

 

[reepicheep]

He has a point....Airways is still at heart based on a northeast US regional route-structure. Incredibly expensive to operate. Despite the inferior pilot contract the airline still has the highest unit costs. Compare this to pre-merger AWA & SW had virtually the same cost-structure. Draw your own conclusions (remember PSA?) but consider US Airways has eventually turned tail and run every time they've gone head-to-head with SW - lone exception being PHL which let's face it is Airways' Alamo.

I

 

[Taco Rocket]

He has a point....Airways is still at heart based on a northeast US regional route-structure. Incredibly expensive to operate. Despite the inferior pilot contract the airline still has the highest unit costs. Compare this to pre-merger AWA & SW had virtually the same cost-structure. Draw your own conclusions (remember PSA?) but consider US Airways has eventually turned tail and run every time they've gone head-to-head with SW - lone exception being PHL which let's face it is Airways' Alamo.

I

SWA no longer has a low cost structure, and US is getting out the high competition northeast (DL slot swaps, reduced BOS presence).

AWA has held its own against SWA for over 20 years, and if you look at PIT and PHL today they have retreated considerably from the market.

 

[reepicheep]

I think the minute you see some downward pressure on yields, especially in the northeast, Airways will be in trouble again. We're in an extremely favorable revenue environment, the airline continues to enjoy a huge windfall via the post 911/bankruptcy era labor contracts, and still they are only moderately profitable.

Nobody should want to see PHX shrink. Airways cannot survive as a
one-trick-pony regional airline - this strategy was a failure.

We'll see.

 

[xanderman]

Wave , I understand YOUR reasoning. What you fail to include in your thought process is this: The additional erosion of east pilot positions that the Nic award would inflict. It is no secret that when AWA merged with Airways their operating costs increased to a point were PHX is NO LONGER profitable!! Throw in $100/bar. oil and stiff competition from SW and other potential Lccs, and the yield margin turns to a steep loss. The overall perception on the East, is that when (if it ever happens) a common CBA is implemented, LCC will reduce ,if not shut down PHX. All these pilots with their Nic on hand will displace, bump, cause furlough to pilots that have been on the property for 25 years+.

Can't really disagree. Your points are valid. I would like to add though that I believe there is a bit of irrational fear in what the east believes should this scenario play out. First, not all of the airplanes and flying taken out of phoenix just disappears leaving 1600 pilots homeless and knocking on your door. In fact the vast majority of the airplanes will make their way east also. Second, I think it's fair to say we all want a contract and this BS debate to finally end. So why don't we negotiate fleet mins and block mins in the next contract. In all seriousness your (the east's) statistics expert that served your merger committee has a written report that shows maximum delay of up to 2 (yep count 'em. TWO!) years for upgrade. So clearly your fear of the west coming in and taking over is irrational and unfounded. You guys really need to look at things objectively not emotionally. It really has been your achilles heel...

 

[Bringupthebird]

PHX closing and the invasion of PHX refugees???


If USAPA could put as much effort into running a legitimate union as they do creating new boogeymen and fanning rhetoric-fueled fires, they might not be in the impossible position they find themselves in.

 

[vetrider]

Wave , I understand YOUR reasoning. What you fail to include in your thought process is this: The additional erosion of east pilot positions that the Nic award would inflict. It is no secret that when AWA merged with Airways their operating costs increased to a point were PHX is NO LONGER profitable!! Throw in $100/bar. oil and stiff competition from SW and other potential Lccs, and the yield margin turns to a steep loss. The overall perception on the East, is that when (if it ever happens) a common CBA is implemented, LCC will reduce ,if not shut down PHX. All these pilots with their Nic on hand will displace, bump, cause furlough to pilots that have been on the property for 25 years+.
You can throw ALL the money in the world at us, but if We perceive this scenario as a potential threat, NO ONE on the EAST will vote yes!! Any contractual improvements will be SHORT lived by many.
The current East CBA, as awful as it IS, provides JOB PROTECTION!! Something that a joint CBA, Nic inclusive, will fail to guarantee.
The West boyz know this. That's why its NIC or Nothing for them.

Everything up to your last sentence is your amateur hour analysis and conjecture. Regarding the last sentence, it has nothing to do with said amateur hour analysis, and everything to do with simply not rolling over for a bunch of bullies.

The fact that the east is unable to get the job done is not the west's problem.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'd say DCA is more vulnerable than PHX. Virtually any DCA pairings could be rebuilt as PHL or CLT based. Closing PHX would require every pairing to have at least 2 hub-to-hub legs. The airline would shrink so much that it could never cover the higher costs.

 

[shon7]

...that's why its NIC or Nothing for them.

ok. try and keep emotion out of this for a minute but I would like to get your fiews on what you would propose as an ideal solution where neither side is disadvantaged? Demerger? A second binding arbitration?

If you were running the airline - what would you do?