Usapa has to go.

[St. Nic]

I agree with that statement. USAPA's stances gives management WAY more options to split up this abortion, etc... that will ultimately benefit management and shareholders.

USAPA and AWA, IMHO is going to wake up one morning and say "holy $hit".

But, as I said in a previous post, USAPA has taken a stance that they support, and I'm sure they'll be just fine with it....

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

 

[captainjack]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

And leave a plate of cookies for Santa this year because he'll be hungry. Don't buy your kids anything, Santa has got you covered.

 

[Fubijaakr]

If you were running the airline - what would you do?

1. Implement the Nicolau SLI. Binding arbitration is BINDING.

2. Negotiate a joint CBA and get the Pickleballers off their embarrasssing pay scale.

Simple.

The west caused this mess.

Its official. This is the STUPIDEST post ever on any website.

What is it in the term "BINDING ARBITRATION" you clowns don't understand? While I agree that DoH is the ONLY thing that should be considered in SLI, you goofballs dorked up the arbitration, lost and now insist on cutting off your noses by working under LOA 93.

How, in God's name, did ANY of you donkeys get pilot licenses?

 

[cactusboy53]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

OMG (I try so very hard to not use this over used colloquialism, but there is no other phase that even comes close)!!! St. Nic you simply have to be one of the folks that was FURLOUGHED when AWA acquired your beleaguered airline. You are hanging on so tight to your little DOH "lottery ticket" that you can not see right from wrong (and what is legal vs. illegal). The AAA MEC started this by pulling away from the JNC, AND Bradford and the USAPA faithful finished it by listening to SSM&P with the "slam dunk".

See you in the court room (because that is the ONLY place that you seem to be able to be instructed).

 

[ultrarunner]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. ...

Really. You me EAST didn't want to negotiate. The list was determined. Not WON. East didn't like it, ran away, created a new club, and there you go.

But like I said, East is fine with it. With the exception of LOA 93, they're plenty happy with life I guess. Good for them. It's some pretty good confidence that East sees staying on LOA93 and separate lists as a much better quality of life in which to retire off of....

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why don't people negotiate Gold Medals in the Olympics? Sure someone cam in first, but the other guy really tried hard and sacrificed alot. Plus he's older. The so-called "winner" can inherit his next olympic gold medal in a couple years.

It's just not fair!!!

 

[Crzipilot]

that's a great analogy....

 

[Scoot 11]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

Next time ask mom and dad if you can use their computer, k?

 

[ultrarunner]

I'd be fascinated to know if the the majority of USAirways (east) pilots maintain today they are in a much better position (pay, QOL, whatever) than if a CBA had been negotiated SIX years ago after Nic spoke.

My assumption is yes, since they have been fighting ever since, new club, new legal, etc...

But it would be interesting to see the numbers...

 

[Hpilot]

I do not claim to be a professional analyst nor am I an amateur, as you suggest. All I have is history and past mergers to gage and speculate on possible future scenarios. Ask yourself this question: What has Airways, among others, done with West operations subsequent to mergers?
Were are the highest YIELD margins found? East or West. I made this easy for ya. You have a 50/50 chance.

I agree, in the event of a combined contract or merger the west will be downsized. Completely shut down? No. I realize that you are used to what has happened in the past aka PSA, but this is not the same management team that you had then, thank god. Remember what happened when US Air pulled out of the west and entrenched in it's money maker east hubs? That's right, multiple bankruptcies and near liquidation. An airline needs that east/west feed. Carriers like Alaska, have to rely on bigger carriers like Delta and American. Hey, that's it we'll shut down the west and becomes Delta and American's B!atches. As a side note, I think Alaska is a great airline, they just have to rely on the larger carriers, because of their size. Maybe Alaska will buy US Airways..... I can dream can't I.

 

[Hpilot]

I'd be fascinated to know if the the majority of USAirways (east) pilots maintain today they are in a much better position (pay, QOL, whatever) than if a CBA had been negotiated SIX years ago after Nic spoke.

My assumption is yes, since they have been fighting ever since, new club, new legal, etc...

But it would be interesting to see the numbers...

It would be interesting to see those numbers. From what I've seen there are different groups. Some knew the NIC was final, but believed they could delay it, which they have. Another group truly believed that DOH and LOA93(pay restoration) were a reality. Yet another group are the pilots that were furloughed at the time of the merger and want it all, at any cost, no matter how much they harm the other east pilots or the west. The last group is lower that a scab. You can pretty much figure out which group an east pilot belongs to by the level of anger they exhibit.

 

[flygirlqt]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

No one can possibly be this ignorant. Keep dreaming and let us all know how it works out for you.

 

[vetrider]

I agree, in the event of a combined contract or merger the west will be downsized. Completely shut down? No. I realize that you are used to what has happened in the past aka PSA, but this is not the same management team that you had then, thank god. Remember what happened when US Air pulled out of the west and entrenched in it's money maker east hubs? That's right, multiple bankruptcies and near liquidation. An airline needs that east/west feed. Carriers like Alaska, have to rely on bigger carriers like Delta and American. Hey, that's it we'll shut down the west and becomes Delta and American's B!atches. As a side note, I think Alaska is a great airline, they just have to rely on the larger carriers, because of their size. Maybe Alaska will buy US Airways..... I can dream can't I.

I'll piggy back on your answer to B-atch, it's essentially what I was thinking. I'll only add that downsizing Phoenix doesnt necessarily equate to downsizing the airline, it could just mean moving crews with airplanes to east bases for scheduling flexibility due to the time zone factor. I freely admit to being the most amateur of all amateur 'analysts' though. The nic or nothing he referred to is not quite the way he paints it. The nic or nothing is not to gain a leg up, it's to keep a mob from cheating us out of the result of a fair process. We can argue airline economics all day, but the insinuation that the west is clinging to the nic being some kind of dirty pool is absurd.

 

[Hpilot]

I'll piggy back on your answer to B-atch, it's essentially what I was thinking. I'll only add that downsizing Phoenix doesnt necessarily equate to downsizing the airline, it could just mean moving crews with airplanes to east bases for scheduling flexibility due to the time zone factor. I freely admit to being the most amateur of all amateur 'analysts' though. The nic or nothing he referred to is not quite the way he paints it. The nic or nothing is not to gain a leg up, it's to keep a mob from cheating us out of the result of a fair process. We can argue airline economics all day, but the insinuation that the west is clinging to the nic being some kind of dirty pool is absurd.

Absolutely, we followed the set process and the Nic was the result.

I've read the same about scheduling, that having the majority of the pilots east helps, because of time zones.

 

[shon7]

aren't both sides just fatigued with all the fighting, back and forth, wage rates, hostility.

 

[Taco Rocket]

aren't both sides just fatigued with all the fighting, back and forth, wage rates, hostility.

I would say no.

Obviously everyone would like to earn more money, but I think most of the east guys still have some gas in that aux fuel tank to burn on this issue.

I think they will delay this for years unless a new deal is made.

Interesting to me is how these guys don't talk to each other. It's like junior high where the west guys are always up to speed on what the east is doing but the east just doesn't care...

 

[TWA Dude]

aren't both sides just fatigued with all the fighting, back and forth, wage rates, hostility.

Justice doesn't always come quickly. The East needs to pay for their treachery and malevolence. The West has no choice but to wait for the inevitable. Binding arbitration means binding even when one side hates the result.

 

[Crzipilot]

I see, and we are going to pay how????? I doubt with our seniority. Still have that pesky vote thing. Eventually when the stagnation stops on the west, and the upgrades slow down for the new hires on the east, you might see some start to want to vote something away. Until then, I don't think you have the numbers....Or the ability to get the company to pony up the money......

One or the other, I feel is what it's going to take. And I don't think you guys can deliver either. I keep hearing guys throw around Delta+ pay rates??? Really......you think you can get that out of the company.......Hardly.... So I doubt the majority east are going to vote for mere peanuts, and even the older guys I fly with aren't willing to sell their soul for a couple of Grand more a year, to sell their f/o's down the river. As it's been pointed out. Pretty much everyone has made adjustments in the past 10 yrs for the Post 9/11 contracts etc......so it isn't that big of a deal to them.

 

[Ocity]

I see, and we are going to pay how????? I doubt with our seniority. Still have that pesky vote thing. Eventually when the stagnation stops on the west, and the upgrades slow down for the new hires on the east, you might see some start to want to vote something away. Until then, I don't think you have the numbers....Or the ability to get the company to pony up the money......

One or the other, I feel is what it's going to take. And I don't think you guys can deliver either. I keep hearing guys throw around Delta+ pay rates??? Really......you think you can get that out of the company.......Hardly.... So I doubt the majority east are going to vote for mere peanuts, and even the older guys I fly with aren't willing to sell their soul for a couple of Grand more a year, to sell their f/o's down the river. As it's been pointed out. Pretty much everyone has made adjustments in the past 10 yrs for the Post 9/11 contracts etc......so it isn't that big of a deal to them.

Talk is cheap. Let's see a vote. I wouldn't be surprised if 50% +1 of the east pilots alone would vote FOR the Kirby proposal.

 

[Carl S.]

East pilots have all the power in this mess. They control when we move forward and only then. West pilots sit on the sidelines and watch the clown show go on and on. No change on the West since the process finished with the Nic., we are ready to move forward when East pilots run out of moves. Till then, enjoy USAPA's internal clown show and LOA 93,