Usapa has to go.

[ultrarunner]

Compromise. Both sides need to dress this PIG in a way that both parties feel fairly treated. The how, when, and why, is up to OUR negotiators....

They tried that, right? And it didn't work, right? That is the reason both sides agreed to binding-arbitration, right?

My sense is that USAPA is now perfectly happy with LOA 93, their current contract, and supporting their legal team till the death to avoid a single CBA that includes Nic. And that's fine, if it works for 'em, press on!

America West, they want a single CBA that includes Nic, and they're willing to fight till that happens. And that's working for them....

The two sides are just way to far apart. That's the reason they went to binding in the first place!, RIGHT? GOT IT NOW!

Practically speaking, IMHO, had they sat down and bargained a single CBA the day after binding arbitration, I think this would be a pretty strong carrier. Instead, I'm curious who would even sit down and even attempt to talk to USAPA in the even Doug tries another merger....

 

[B-atch]

Everything up to your last sentence is your amateur hour analysis and conjecture. Regarding the last sentence, it has nothing to do with said amateur hour analysis, and everything to do with simply not rolling over for a bunch of bullies.

The fact that the east is unable to get the job done is not the west's problem.

I do not claim to be a professional analyst nor am I an amateur, as you suggest. All I have is history and past mergers to gage and speculate on possible future scenarios. Ask yourself this question: What has Airways, among others, done with West operations subsequent to mergers?
Were are the highest YIELD margins found? East or West. I made this easy for ya. You have a 50/50 chance.

 

[Taco Rocket]

They tried that, right? And it didn't work, right? That is the reason both sides agreed to binding-arbitration, right?

I think the genesis of this problem is that ALPA-ALPA negotiation process.

This process, in my opinion, doesn't encourage a mediated solution. Instead it encourages infighting within your own MEC just to get to a "unified" position BEFORE presenting that position to the opposing MEC. That leaves no room to truly negotiate.

Should you attempt to negotiate with the other MEC you quickly find your own support eroding (possibly with a recall). Witness today's United/CAL negotiations.

The end result is a "take it or leave it" ultimatum -- which, by its very nature is doomed to fail. Rejecting this ultimatum begets a "see you arbitration" slinging of mud. Finally, this "professional arbitrator" who is less interested in the dispute than in retaining his future employability in retaining future lucrative arbitration work issues a decision which takes on a carnival or casino-like proposition. Spin the wheel and see where the ball lands.

Is this representation? Is this a loss? Who loses? Everyone.

 

[ultrarunner]

In this debate some assume management wants or needs to get to a joint contract. I disagree and wonder where this assumption was made.

I agree with that statement. USAPA's stances gives management WAY more options to split up this abortion, etc... that will ultimately benefit management and shareholders.

USAPA and AWA, IMHO is going to wake up one morning and say "holy $hit".

But, as I said in a previous post, USAPA has taken a stance that they support, and I'm sure they'll be just fine with it....

 

[flygirlqt]

In this debate some assume management wants or needs to get to a joint contract. I disagree and wonder where this assumption was made.

That is exactly right, +1. There is not a financial incentive for the company to change their ways. The assumptions are being made out of ignorance as a wet dream type effort to undo a binding arbitration. More wishful thinking by those that think any contract negotiations will contain language or stipulations for a do over and/or adjusting of the Nic.

 

[St. Nic]

I agree with that statement. USAPA's stances gives management WAY more options to split up this abortion, etc... that will ultimately benefit management and shareholders.

USAPA and AWA, IMHO is going to wake up one morning and say "holy $hit".

But, as I said in a previous post, USAPA has taken a stance that they support, and I'm sure they'll be just fine with it....

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

 

[captainjack]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

And leave a plate of cookies for Santa this year because he'll be hungry. Don't buy your kids anything, Santa has got you covered.

 

[Fubijaakr]

If you were running the airline - what would you do?

1. Implement the Nicolau SLI. Binding arbitration is BINDING.

2. Negotiate a joint CBA and get the Pickleballers off their embarrasssing pay scale.

Simple.

The west caused this mess.

Its official. This is the STUPIDEST post ever on any website.

What is it in the term "BINDING ARBITRATION" you clowns don't understand? While I agree that DoH is the ONLY thing that should be considered in SLI, you goofballs dorked up the arbitration, lost and now insist on cutting off your noses by working under LOA 93.

How, in God's name, did ANY of you donkeys get pilot licenses?

 

[cactusboy53]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

OMG (I try so very hard to not use this over used colloquialism, but there is no other phase that even comes close)!!! St. Nic you simply have to be one of the folks that was FURLOUGHED when AWA acquired your beleaguered airline. You are hanging on so tight to your little DOH "lottery ticket" that you can not see right from wrong (and what is legal vs. illegal). The AAA MEC started this by pulling away from the JNC, AND Bradford and the USAPA faithful finished it by listening to SSM&P with the "slam dunk".

See you in the court room (because that is the ONLY place that you seem to be able to be instructed).

 

[ultrarunner]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. ...

Really. You me EAST didn't want to negotiate. The list was determined. Not WON. East didn't like it, ran away, created a new club, and there you go.

But like I said, East is fine with it. With the exception of LOA 93, they're plenty happy with life I guess. Good for them. It's some pretty good confidence that East sees staying on LOA93 and separate lists as a much better quality of life in which to retire off of....

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why don't people negotiate Gold Medals in the Olympics? Sure someone cam in first, but the other guy really tried hard and sacrificed alot. Plus he's older. The so-called "winner" can inherit his next olympic gold medal in a couple years.

It's just not fair!!!

 

[Crzipilot]

that's a great analogy....

 

[Scoot 11]

The west caused this mess. Their the ones that didn't want to come to the table and negotiate the Nicolau abortion. They took there lotery ticket and wont let go because they know they have won. It is amazing the greed the westicles have caused. The third listers see it and we fly with them every day. They know who the problem is and eventually the west will be sold off so the problem will be solved.

Next time ask mom and dad if you can use their computer, k?

 

[ultrarunner]

I'd be fascinated to know if the the majority of USAirways (east) pilots maintain today they are in a much better position (pay, QOL, whatever) than if a CBA had been negotiated SIX years ago after Nic spoke.

My assumption is yes, since they have been fighting ever since, new club, new legal, etc...

But it would be interesting to see the numbers...

 

[Hpilot]

I do not claim to be a professional analyst nor am I an amateur, as you suggest. All I have is history and past mergers to gage and speculate on possible future scenarios. Ask yourself this question: What has Airways, among others, done with West operations subsequent to mergers?
Were are the highest YIELD margins found? East or West. I made this easy for ya. You have a 50/50 chance.

I agree, in the event of a combined contract or merger the west will be downsized. Completely shut down? No. I realize that you are used to what has happened in the past aka PSA, but this is not the same management team that you had then, thank god. Remember what happened when US Air pulled out of the west and entrenched in it's money maker east hubs? That's right, multiple bankruptcies and near liquidation. An airline needs that east/west feed. Carriers like Alaska, have to rely on bigger carriers like Delta and American. Hey, that's it we'll shut down the west and becomes Delta and American's B!atches. As a side note, I think Alaska is a great airline, they just have to rely on the larger carriers, because of their size. Maybe Alaska will buy US Airways..... I can dream can't I.