USAirways Furloughs

[Bringupthebird]

you're ultimate loyalty sure is to the republican party isn't it? more than your country, more than you career, more than your company.

It's not a loyalty issue (although loyalty, when deserved, is an admirable virtue). It's about who will work with both sides to create the alliances that make politics work.

Obama is the steamroll strategy where he and Pelosi and Reid jam their agenda through while the world laughs at the USA finally getting the lashing they feel it's always deserved.

McCain is the polar opposite of loyalty to the republicans. He needs to mend fences in both directions and yet hold the extreme left in check. He can re-make politics in Washington by breaking the partisan logjam.

Obama can eloquently say many things, but that isn't one of them.

 

[Turtle21]

..We'll see you in court ...

Frankly I don't have an issue with ALPA accept that it sold its union principles in exchange for pragmatism to maximize dues decades ago. This train wreck was inevitable. It just took awhile to erupt to the point it wasn't containable.

The present debacle of acrimony (between groups of pilots that paid dues to one Master) is testimony to the fact that ALPA boldly established many "sides" ... and abandoned both sides in a futile attempt to preserve the dues of both. It wasn't personal. It was just business. Business became preeminent above representation long before AWA and USair ever looked at merging.

If ALPA had been able to remain a union after deregulation then pilots wouldn't be left to seek remedy through lawful means outside of the "union".

Frankly I don't begrudge you at all for doing everything you can within the law.. you didn't have a union then and don't appear to believe you have one now.

Best of luck.

 

[weasel_lips]

We are furloughing out of seniority

Not exactly since it is two seperate pilot groups. You seem to forget that.

 

[OnTheDole]

Not exactly since it is two seperate pilot groups. You seem to forget that.

you guys where banging the one pilot group drum along w/ mgmt. when the union vote was out.

I would love to be two seperate pilot groups - AWA would still be w/ ALPA and you'd be swirling in the toilet w/ the USAPA turd by yourself.

 

[waveflyer]

i think you don't understand obama - but we can have that talk on another thread- in the meantime- AAA: get your head out of your arse

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Frankly I don't have an issue with ALPA accept that it sold its union principles in exchange for pragmatism to maximize dues decades ago. This train wreck was inevitable. It just took awhile to erupt to the point it wasn't containable.

The present debacle of acrimony (between groups of pilots that paid dues to one Master) is testimony to the fact that ALPA boldly established many "sides" ... and abandoned both sides in a futile attempt to preserve the dues of both. It wasn't personal. It was just business. Business became preeminent above representation long before AWA and USair ever looked at merging.

If ALPA had been able to remain a union after deregulation then pilots wouldn't be left to seek remedy through lawful means outside of the "union".

Frankly I don't begrudge you at all for doing everything you can within the law.. you didn't have a union then and don't appear to believe you have one now.

Best of luck.

I have to agree with the above statement. I attended a meeting wherein highly paid ALPA folks were peeing all over themselves over the prospect of losing our dues money. They wanted the AWA guys to cave in on concessions to the Nic and did'nt care what kind of precedent that would set for binding arbitration. Where they really screwed up was by not presenting the list to Parker immediately and pressing on with negotiations.

 

[cactusboy53]

Not exactly since it is two seperate pilot groups. You seem to forget that.

I'll call your "not exactly" and raise you another "not exactly". Section II; paragraph 7 of the Transition Agreement states that any "Third List" pilots as JUNIOR to all AWA & AAA pilots. LCC is furloughing out of seniority and even date of hire sequence (45 and still counting)!!

Further, section IV; paragraph 2 states that a furloughed pilot may not displace / bump an active pilot. Since we had a half dozen or better former AAA pilots set to be furloughed from the west that should have been the end of it. Sending those furloughed pilots over to the east (boy, that was a quiet operation wan't it?), that managed to displace 6 or more active pilots on the east.

One thing that you may not know about us here in the west is that we are INFORMED. We READ the rules that guide our pilot group. During the merger process we were given access to the Arbitration and Mediation process (transcripts). We don't make stuff up because it sounds good. Our leaders didn't mask the truth of the process.

We will not roll over. We will not capitulate. We will not comply until and if every other avenue has been attempted.

We have had a number of contributions from other pilots and other labor groups to our causes. USAPA filed an appeal to sue 18-24 of our pilots (after the original lawsuit had been dismissed). For those of you that are spectators of this event and wish to help the AWA financially:

The Army of Leonidas address is:​

Leonidas LLC
2650 FM 407, Ste. 145-147
Bartonville, TX 76226​

The AWA Pilot (Cactus 18) Defense Trust address is:​

AWA Pilots Legal Defense Trust
3626 West Glass Lane
Phoenix, Arizona 85041​

The AWA pilots wish to thank all supporters of our ordeal. Your kind words, wishes and contributions are GREATLY APPRECIATED!!​

 

[weasel_lips]

I'll call your "not exactly" and raise you another "not exactly".

Okay then... if you are not seperate then why don't you guys just bid over to PHL A320 positions.

Feel free to repeat yourself over and over.

 

[MCDU]

Its kind of like MDA I guess. MDA pilots could not bid either. So if MDA could not bid and AWA pilots could not bid certain positions ,does that put AWA and MDA pilots in the same category. According to AWA pilots MDA pilots were not Mainline because of the mere fact they were not allowed to bid certain positions.

M

 

[cactusboy53]

Okay then... if you are not seperate then why don't you guys just bid over to PHL A320 positions.

Feel free to repeat yourself over and over.

Do you know why the farmer hit his ass over the head with the 2x4? TO GET HIS UNDIVIDED ATTENTION.

I'll see you in Philly right after the NMB and Dept. of Labor forces USAPA to act like it "represents 5000 US Airways Pilots". I'll buy the Rolling Rock if you buy the sandwiches. BTW...if you are senior to me on the Nic, I'll be tickled pick to throw your gear Captain!

 

[MCDU]

If his DOH is 9/10 2000. You will be pulling his gear..

M

 

[Bringupthebird]

Not exactly since it is two seperate pilot groups. You seem to forget that.

Give the NMB a call and remind them of that. Perhaps they will void the last "election". (You remember the one that was called even though the cards had been tampered with prior to being submitted in that snazzy little coffin, um, I mean box).

 

[cactusboy53]

If his DOH is 9/10 2000. You will be pulling his gear..

M

Pardon me, but wasn't hadn't AWA furloughed pilots after 1999, and continue to do so before we bought AAA?? Nic says you must play by the rules.

 

[waveflyer]

Okay then... if you are not seperate then why don't you guys just bid over to PHL A320 positions.

Feel free to repeat yourself over and over.

When there were vacancies on both sides- new hire pilots had the choice to go east or west. Furloughed East recalls had the choice. In this situation it's not about the 2 main groups and what they are able to bid- it's about the fact that noone is confused about the seniority of the new hires. The company is absolutely wrong in this and USAPA lost an opportunity to fight management on the west's behalf. You could have won some respect and credibility here-- now ... more lawsuits for the company and yourself. I don't get it. The furloughs aren't that deep. If USAPA had stood up to the company and forced them to furlough new hires first- the training costs involved would have mitigated the furloughs somewhat- if not altogether.

It's a scratch your head- LOSE-LOSE-LOSE position that USAPA taken on this one.

Really sad, this fight.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Okay then weasel,

Parker has accepted the list for this Bargining Cycle and has signed a contract (TA) as well, obligating him to use it. You guys while smoking sehams crack have decided to ignore this. It has nothing to do with who is or was our Bargining agent. It's a contract and he signed it.

So what would you call it.

Fast

A proven alcoholic with 3 dui's to his credit signing a piece of paper. This is our fearless leader at work!! Doug is a joke! Give me a real leader!

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Then i'll go the opposite of boycaptain- it's not him bragging about his pay- it's slamming AAA for theirs. Especially when they've had the chance to improve it.

from APC
AAA-
year 16- A330 $160
Capt B76/76 $144
A320/B737 $125
E190 $ 95
FO E190 $52 topped out!
================================
Republic
yr 20 CAPT E175 $119 ($6 less/hr than an A320 driver! AND much better work rules/ rigs) ($24/hr MORE than the 190 at mainline)(All mainline guys would fall under the year 20 rates... you'd have to go back to year 11 at republic to find rates less than the topped out $95 at AAA)

oh- and the 175 is smaller than the 190 if you didn't know.

Republic E145- $103/hr E170- $108
--------------------------------------
Mesa- CRJ9- $104, CRJ7-$94
---------------------------------------
Air Wisconsin- crj50- $94 ($1/hr less to fly an a/c half the size- w/ much better rigs.)
-----------------------------------------
piedmont gets $78/hr to fly the Dash
--------------------------------------
PSA- $93/hr for all CRJ's
----------------------------------------
"KIDS" as you like to call them- have negotiated wages that surpass your own for a/c that are 50-100% smaller.........

YOUR PAYRATES ARE A BIG PROBLEM AND ARE DRAGGING THE INDUSTRY DOWN WHILE YOU WHINE ABOUT AN ARBITRATION THAT DIDN'T GO YOUR WAY

I'm tired of conservative pilots talking about letting banks go out business instead of bailing them out- when we ruined the flying career ATTEMPTING to bail out our own companies. If you're at a legacy- and use the excuse that you were in bankruptcy- YOU F'd UP. So maybe UPS will go through a BK- but that's not the point. The point is how the Baby-Boomers divided us in an attempt to keep what they had.

Republic has no rigs and their 190 pay is the highest paying airplane which they don't even have any on property. Thank god for scope. Look at their co pilot pay and compare to US Airways. The new pay rates offered by USAPA are quite impressive, best pay rate by far over SWA, FED EX, etc. Just got to get drunk doug to sign off and both groups to agree to a seniority list. Doug wants west pay plus 3%. Good thing the amer west pilots agreed to fly the A330 at the same pay as bankrupt US Airways pay rates. We are all hopeless at US Airways!!!!

 

[ALGFLYR]

...and their 190 pay is the highest paying airplane which they don't even have any on property. Thank god for scope.

If I'm not mistaken, that pay rate covers the 175 as well... and they have quite a few of those flying around...

 

[OnTheDole]

The new pay rates offered by USAPA are quite impressive, best pay rate by far over SWA, FED EX, etc.

And lets not forget... they're also a total joke. Whatever time those bozos spent making up those #s was a total waste of union dues. Idiots.

 

[kc81900]

If this sh_t hole that is the 'New USAirways' shrinks for years and ends up on the verge of liquidation like the old USAir and we get bought (or Merged) with a compay who has recently hired and/ or has nobody on furlough I WILL EXPECT TO BE PUT JUNIOR TO THEIR MOST JUNIOR ACTIVE PILOT and if I take the job @ recall I will appreciate the fact that without this new merger I would STILL be unemployed.

There you have it...
If I'm on furlough @ the time of a merger I expect and accept being placed junior to all active pilots on the other companies senority list

I have got to believe that USair with its current implosion has convienced all CEO' BOD's etc... to never touch that with a ten foot pole. the pilot merger "problem" has in my opinion made your company untouchable. Why step into that pile when you can just sit back watch the carnage and step in after words and pick it clean. Just my opinion.

 

[jmreii]

Why would anybody in their right mind, and that can be debated, would knowly set out to buy a problem???