USAirways East losing respect.

[Vne]

and far worse than what was done to the TWA pilots.

Wino your an idiot. AAA/ AWA was submitted to a NEUTRAL.He made his decision for better or worse.
TWA got the APA version of far and equitable ,BIG DIFFERENCE and much worse.

 

[Carl S.]

I would guess that the top 517 and 1000 behind them at AAA will vote yes on anything than LOA 93 till 12/09+++ because they came out ahead. Will a T/A get out, we'll see the offer on 5/09/07. After two no votes on either side, expect Prater to combine the MEC's and get a straight vote and see where that goes. One Certificate by the fall for sure, one list today and one contract, who knows, those are the facts!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hey TD , AWAC invested in AAA before you guys did and we have a seat on the BOD there still after all the stock that was sold. Since that money came from the pilots shouldn't that mean we get in before AWA pilots? I mean, it's only fair right? Our money came before your money to save the day.

All this was being discussed on the other thread. Why the new thread? Didn't think your post would get much attention?

And TD , I am living through it. I was forced out of my base to this crappy one in PHL. I used to drive to work and now I commute off line two legs.

When you say "we have a seat on the BOD" to whom are you refering?? The AWAC pilot group or eastshore??

This particular subject was not being discussed on the other thread. The whinning to ALPA national about some preceived injustice (their realitive positions never changed) is what this thread was about. There are things that went on during this process that many don't know. We (the AWA pilot group) were treated with total disrespect since day one. They smiled in our faces telling us all along that "it's in the arbitrator's hands now and we will all have to live with it"!! So no you are not living thru that. You are not living thru the constant disrespect or the resolutions that state "regardless of the AWA MEC's position this is what you will do ALPA national"!!! When you have been dissed like that call me bro then we will really have something to converse about...

Now as for joining the list, that group is really big on reminding you of what you brought to the dance. Since you only brought RJ's then you never had any expectation of flying anything larger hence the fence around the widebody a/c.

The commute thing, I remember that all too well!! I was sitting pretty well in DEN with weekends off then almost overnight I was in ORD every trip hitting points east.

Will this mean that you will give me access back on your web board

WD.

 

[DiverDriver]

When you say "we have a seat on the BOD" to whom are you refering?? The AWAC pilot group or eastshore??

<snip>

Will this mean that you will give me access back on your web board


WD.

Oh Trick Daddy . Thanks for "putting me in my place". You see, there is always another view on every topic.

And you're not on the ban list for AirWilly so I haven't taken anything away from you. Why would you imply that?

 

[Wino]

VNE,

Run both scenarios of TWA AA and USa AWA. With and without 9/11.

In BOTH cases the twa pilots make out far better than the USair pilots. So I guess if a neutral guy had screwed the TWA pilots more as has been shown appropriate, you would feel better about it?

The Key to a fair merger is in the fences. For all practical purposes there are none in this integration.

The APA was far more generous than the flight attendants.

Cheers
Wino

 

[steveg]

OK, I've stayed silent but that last post is just plain wrong. If the TWA pilots got the deal USAir did, there would be at least 1000 more TWA pilots at AA today. I think any TWA pilot would've taken relative seniority in a heart beat. You clearly are talking about things you do not know about. The USAir furloughess at the bottom of the list were not stapled. They are not active employees, they do not have jobs at USAir. If they come back, it will be at the bottom of the list, just like before.

The east guys were looking to be made whole after the bad things that have happened in their career. Completely understandable. The problem is, they wanted it at the expense of the west pilots. By the way, the east guys are not the only ones in this industry that have had a bad time. In fact most of us have. I've never heard one single USAir pilot have an ounce of sympathy for anyone else in this profession. I've never heard anything but complaining about how bad they have had it. Open your eyes and look around, a lot of people have had bad times.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Oh Trick Daddy . Thanks for "putting me in my place". You see, there is always another view on every topic.

And you're not on the ban list for AirWilly so I haven't taken anything away from you. Why would you imply that?

Oops, certainly wasn't my intention to put anyone in anyplace and I apologize if I gave that impression.

I thought after our last exchange on the forum that you did but truth be told I never tried log on again and after I got rid of my last desktop I lost the login and password.

WD.

 

[TWA Dude]

So I guess if a neutral guy had screwed the TWA pilots more as has been shown appropriate, you would feel better about it?

Nobody likes to lose but we take comfort in knowing the game is played fairly.

 

[Lear70]

The east guys were looking to be made whole after the bad things that have happened in their career. Completely understandable. The problem is, they wanted it at the expense of the west pilots. By the way, the east guys are not the only ones in this industry that have had a bad time. In fact most of us have.

So let me get this straight...

You somehow think that the furloughed UAir guys should go BENEATH the 20-something that has 30+ years still left?

And that's fair HOW?

If you were a UAir guy you would be thinking the same thing...

Additionally, I fail to see how FENCES would hurt the AWA pilots. They'd still have jobs. They'd still move up the list as AWA guys retired and/or new aircraft were purchased and delivered.

The more and more I hear AWA pilots weigh in with their belief this was somehow FAIR?? the more I believe UAir guys should drag the fight out as long as they can, appeal it as far as it can be appealed, and dump ALPA in favor of teamsters (won't work long-term but will keep it tied up another year or two). Basically it gives them an artificial fence that the arbitrator SHOULD have put in place.

If they can get an extra 3-5 years out of it in their current seats, then good for them, especially with the ME-ME-ME attitude going on in the West (not all of you, but enough to p*ss me off and I don't even work there).

I've never heard one single USAir pilot have an ounce of sympathy for anyone else in this profession. I've never heard anything but complaining about how bad they have had it. Open your eyes and look around, a lot of people have had bad times.

I think that's a bit of an extreme statement to make, don't you? No need to exaggerate... We have plenty of ex-UAir guys here at AAI and they're very aware of the crap the entire industry has been faced with.

I'm not saying the UAir negotiators acted appropriately 100% of the time, but it's extremely biased towards AWA, and the best thing the AWA pilots could do is keep their mouth shut about it. Gloating will only stir the ant hill and makes the entire group look like an a*s.

 

[Heavy Set]

It seems to me this was a percentage type merger. If you were in the bottom 20 percent at Usair, you were placed in the bottom 20 percent of the new merged company I guess, regardless of doh. In reality, that seems fair since Usair was probably going to liquidate anyway.

 

[Lear70]

It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them.

I also don't necessarily agree that UAir was going to liquidate. There was never any hard proof of that, but evidently enough inuendo and suggestive evidence that the Arbitrator was convinced.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them.

I also don't necessarily agree that UAir was going to liquidate. There was never any hard proof of that, but evidently enough inuendo and suggestive evidence that the Arbitrator was convinced.

What have you been asleep for the past six years??? There was no doubt that AAA was on the brink of closure at the announcement of this thing. Furloughs 18 years deep says it all bro!! Time to wake up partner...

Not one AWA post on here has been gloating rather reminding them of their very unreasonable attitudes and position from the start.

WD.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them."

I'll add my vote to that. I'd be disappointed in the integration either way, but the lack of fences directly impacts career expectations and provides a windfall to West pilots as 50% of East will retire over the next 15 years.

 

[FDJ2]

So let me get this straight...

You somehow think that the furloughed UAir guys should go BENEATH the 20-something that has 30+ years still left?

And that's fair HOW?

What does age have to do with seniority or seniority integration? That 20 something west pilot may be a line holding B757 pilot, so yes, his seniority number brings significantly more to the table than a furloughed pilot. Whether that furloughed pilot is 20 years old or 50 years old is irrelevant.

You need to start wrapping your brains around the fact that this is a "seniority" list integration, not a "DOH" integration or "age" integration.

A DOH at either AWA or U simply determines your seniority number at your respective airlines, once your two airlines start merging what matters is your "seniority" number at what that seniority number brings to the table. Does it bring you a line holder position on the A320 or does it bring you a recall number.

 

[FDJ2]

It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them.

You may have a point, perhaps the arbitrator would have listened more to it if it was the main point the US pilots were trying to make.