USAirways East losing respect.

[Lear70]

It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them.

I also don't necessarily agree that UAir was going to liquidate. There was never any hard proof of that, but evidently enough inuendo and suggestive evidence that the Arbitrator was convinced.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them.

I also don't necessarily agree that UAir was going to liquidate. There was never any hard proof of that, but evidently enough inuendo and suggestive evidence that the Arbitrator was convinced.

What have you been asleep for the past six years??? There was no doubt that AAA was on the brink of closure at the announcement of this thing. Furloughs 18 years deep says it all bro!! Time to wake up partner...

Not one AWA post on here has been gloating rather reminding them of their very unreasonable attitudes and position from the start.

WD.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them."

I'll add my vote to that. I'd be disappointed in the integration either way, but the lack of fences directly impacts career expectations and provides a windfall to West pilots as 50% of East will retire over the next 15 years.

 

[FDJ2]

So let me get this straight...

You somehow think that the furloughed UAir guys should go BENEATH the 20-something that has 30+ years still left?

And that's fair HOW?

What does age have to do with seniority or seniority integration? That 20 something west pilot may be a line holding B757 pilot, so yes, his seniority number brings significantly more to the table than a furloughed pilot. Whether that furloughed pilot is 20 years old or 50 years old is irrelevant.

You need to start wrapping your brains around the fact that this is a "seniority" list integration, not a "DOH" integration or "age" integration.

A DOH at either AWA or U simply determines your seniority number at your respective airlines, once your two airlines start merging what matters is your "seniority" number at what that seniority number brings to the table. Does it bring you a line holder position on the A320 or does it bring you a recall number.

 

[FDJ2]

It's not the seniority placement that bugs me, it's the lack of fences and the way that Age 65 legislation immediately negates them.

You may have a point, perhaps the arbitrator would have listened more to it if it was the main point the US pilots were trying to make.

 

[doh]

...Well ok, the list is now out. Its not doh, so lets burn down the house...

Hey, don't bring me into this! But seriously, I wish that you all can come together and deal with the real problem, your management!

 

[Lear70]

You may have a point, perhaps the arbitrator would have listened more to it if it was the main point the US pilots were trying to make.

Good point.

What does age have to do with seniority or seniority integration? That 20 something west pilot may be a line holding B757 pilot, so yes, his seniority number brings significantly more to the table than a furloughed pilot. Whether that furloughed pilot is 20 years old or 50 years old is irrelevant.

What does age have to do with it? It has EVERYTHING to do with it... IF you're the guy staring down the barrel of mandatory retirement in less than a decade.

Irrelevant? Only if you're not the 50-year old.

You need to start wrapping your brains around the fact that this is a "seniority" list integration, not a "DOH" integration or "age" integration.

Again, I don't give a rat's about DOH. What I'm concerned with is an integration that not only recognizes someone's current position, but also their future career earnings ability and addresses it.

This ruling didn't. I'm just looking at it from a sense of what's "fair". I wouldn't say the AWA pilots should have been stapled or furloughed, but without fences they just got handed a lottery ticket worth an extra $1 Million on their career earnings.

A DOH at either AWA or U simply determines your seniority number at your respective airlines, once your two airlines start merging what matters is your "seniority" number at what that seniority number brings to the table. Does it bring you a line holder position on the A320 or does it bring you a recall number.

In a more equitable solution, it would have done both, albeit slower than what the AWA pilots will see now.

It's just sad to see it slanted so heavily to one side of the table.

 

[AutoBus]

The east guys were looking to be made whole after the bad things that have happened in their career. Completely understandable. The problem is, they wanted it at the expense of the west pilots. By the way, the east guys are not the only ones in this industry that have had a bad time. In fact most of us have. I've never heard one single USAir pilot have an ounce of sympathy for anyone else in this profession. I've never heard anything but complaining about how bad they have had it. Open your eyes and look around, a lot of people have had bad times.

This post pretty much sums up my feelings, The Easties want to be made whole at the expense of the West, they looked at the merger as a chance for that to happen.

 

[AutoBus]

So let me get this straight...

You somehow think that the furloughed UAir guys should go BENEATH the 20-something that has 30+ years still left?

And that's fair HOW?

If you were a UAir guy you would be thinking the same thing...

.

You guys must just don't get it! It ain't an age thing! It ain't a DOH thing! It's about the jobs and relative seniority you brought to the table!

If you were at the bottom of the active list BEFORE the merger, you are at the BOTTOM after the merger.

I believe Dave O. is the last man on the combined active as of the date of merger, that is where he belongs that is where he is. The people below him now were recalled after the merger and that's where they belong. Why should they leapfrog Dave O.? They did not have jobs!

 

[Lear70]

Like I said... you guys want to bash the UAir guys for the way they behaved at the table, then you come out with this righteous crap that says you're somehow justified getting the huge windfall the arbitrator gave you.

You're not making your pilot group look very good. But then again, we DO live in the "Me-me-me" era of aviation. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

Maybe we should rename the thread...