US Airways Pilot/FA Recall

[Captzaahlie]

psw - Can you explain the means and methods that would allow this, contractually speaking? I know of none, but I hope there is one.

Let's not get into the right and wrong of it, because I completely agree that what you propose should indeed take place.

Would these pilots be at 1st year longevity for pay or 5 year like they should be on the West list. I am afreard that you are confusing fairness with reality. Again, I would totally support what you are suggesting, but there would need to be new contractual language if they are to begin work on the East at anything other than new hire status.

God fear their work environment. They would be the stormtroopers of pilot group integration at the most heated and unresolved time to date!

As far as the East list being nowhere near exhausted, I disagree strongly. There were only 84 East furloughees (as this was strictly a negotiating tactic by our beloved, benevolent management team) and 43 had to be contacted to get a class of 20 to agree to drive the remaining E190's at Mesa wages. 20 more are soon to return, and I believe there will be more in the months to come, when training slots allow it.

Your comment about West returning to an East job, that is speculation twice over. 1st you assume it is an eventuality that USAPA will initiate and complete the necessary contractual additions that permit this. 2ndly you assume that they would return and bring with them their accrued West longevity. Again, to be clear, that is totally appropriate. I am not a poop flinger, but rather a 3rd list puke. If they come to East to start at our $36K salary for first year dudes, then it is not exactly a stellar proposition.

I'm all over it, personally, if only to get my longevity going again, but the 190 rates are dispicable as is the rest of the contract on the East. It remains the most pungent indictment of USAPA for the entire industry as well as just deserts for any of those pilots on the east who wish to deny contractual progress for short term personal gain.

Tweak log on the the usapa site it is spelled out the right there that one side has to take the others if the recall list is exhausted and the other side has not called all back. This has to be done before any new hiring. Of course they will go to the bottom of the other sides list and will have rights to go back to their original side when the opportunity presents itself.
Now answer one for me, and I think i already know the answer. If we left/ got furloughed in the middle of one year pay , we are still on first year pay when we get called back 2 years later right?


Seven pages from the giuys below address this, I'm not going to post all of it but here's the conclusion for you at the bottom........

SEHAM, SEHAM, MELTZ & PETERSEN, LLP
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
445 HAMILTON AVENUE, SUITE 1204
WHITE PLAINS, NEW YORK 10601
TEL: (914) 997-1346
FAX: (914) 997-7125
[email protected]
www.ssmplaw.com
To: Capt. Tracy Parrella From: Theresa Murphy, Esq.
Date: July 23, 2010 Re: Recalls




CONCLUSION
The Company offering recall to new hire East pilots who are already on the East seniority list, before offering recall to those east positions to pre-merger West pilots on furlough, does not violate the Collective Bargaining Agreement/Transition Agreement. If after the Company offers recall to the new hire East pilots, there are still positions available, then the Company would, at that point, pursuant to Section II. B. 10., be required to offer those positions to West pilots before hiring any new pilots.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Why this is such a ********************ed up company....

The Infinite Loop
As your Reps talk to pilots from around the system, we are learning that there is possibly a rather large misconception about how we can “fix” the seniority integration. At the last crewnews, we believe that Mr. Parker also holds this same false premise. What Mr. Parker and many pilots are saying is that there needs to be a compromise on the Nicolau seniority list, some middle ground that can be worked out that would be acceptable to both pilot groups. Mr.Parker stated that it is up to the two pilot groups to work out Section 22.
The major problem with this thinking is that once USAPA became the bargaining agent, the separate West pilot group disappeared. Frankly there is no one to negotiate with that has any legal authority from the West to compromise on the Nicolau. The PHX Domicile Reps are USAPA Reps that only represent PHX pilots within that structure. That just happens to be the West pilot group, but we have no ability to negotiate anything. In order to negotiate, someone would need to be elected by a majority of ALL PHX, not just USAPA members. With the understanding that it would be for the purpose of changing the Nicolau award. There are no West pilots on the Merger Committee, which means that two East pilots are left to decide what they consider as a fair integration for West pilots and the entire US Airways pilot group where there was a neutral arbitrator to decide before. We would need to have our own merger counsel and Merger Committee. Basically standing up an entire West merger structure with all USAPA members paying for that mechanism. There is nothing in the USAPA C&BL that would allow this.

Mr. Parker then went on to say that once the two pilot groups make a decision about Section 22 then we could get to a contract. In addition, Parker said that someone is going to have to tell one side or the other it is time to stop because he sees no compromise from the entrenched positions.
Here is where we enter the loop. Both sides are entrenched in their positions, and the only authority that either side will listen to, to stop will be the court. The Ninth Circuit just told us that a court will not hear the case until we have a ratified contract.
Mr. Parker still after 5 years has refused to make a decision about what he will do with seniority. He wants the union to “make a deal”; there is no West to “make a deal” with. We cannot get to court until we have a contract; we cannot get a contract until Doug Parker, the architect of this disaster, decides whether he is going to use the Nicolau list as accepted in 2007 or negotiate with USAPA for something other than an arbitrated list.
The Ninth Circuit ruled that the Addington case was not ripe.
We will not have a ripe claim to find out which side is correct until we get a ratified contract.

We cannot get a ratified contract until Doug Parker decides what he is going to accept as a seniority list. Mr. Parker is waiting for the two pilot groups to decide what the seniority list will be. The two pilot groups cannot agree to a list because there are no longer two legal pilot groups. The court will have to decide which side is correct.
And so it goes the infinity loop. The only person that can get us out of this loop is the one person that put us all in the position and has refused to take the responsibility and make a decision. Doug Parker, CEO US Airways.


I think this was really well written and obviously Parker has to laughing his ass off at our two pilot groups because he is more than happy to continue paying our less than industry standard wages!

 

[Mike November]

Mike November I have sent an email a few weeks ago to the (now former) pilot coordinator DM. His inoffical reply was that he assumes that it'll be quite some time before Airways will call new hires. Additionally, he stated that I was still in good standing and that I will be contacted once the need arises for new hires (His assumption - nothing official!).

Has anyone of the poolies received a letter that the pool had been dumped? I hope not!!

Thanks. I did the same email back and forth with DM and he said the same thing. It was more like 6 mos. ago though...good to hear more current info.

He gave me another contact name and #. I'll drop her a call soon and let you know what I find out.

 

[Dornier 335]

M N PM me please when you get more info.

Thx
3 3 5

 

[psw757]

Tweak log on the the usapa site it is spelled out the right there that one side has to take the others if the recall list is exhausted and the other side has not called all back. This has to be done before any new hiring. Of course they will go to the bottom of the other sides list and will have rights to go back to their original side when the opportunity presents itself.
Now answer one for me, and I think i already know the answer. If we left/ got furloughed in the middle of one year pay , we are still on first year pay when we get called back 2 years later right?


Seven pages from the giuys below address this, I'm not going to post all of it but here's the conclusion for you at the bottom........

SEHAM, SEHAM, MELTZ & PETERSEN, LLP
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
445 HAMILTON AVENUE, SUITE 1204
WHITE PLAINS, NEW YORK 10601
TEL: (914) 997-1346
FAX: (914) 997-7125
[email protected]
www.ssmplaw.com
To: Capt. Tracy Parrella From: Theresa Murphy, Esq.
Date: July 23, 2010 Re: Recalls




CONCLUSION
The Company offering recall to new hire East pilots who are already on the East seniority list, before offering recall to those east positions to pre-merger West pilots on furlough, does not violate the Collective Bargaining Agreement/Transition Agreement. If after the Company offers recall to the new hire East pilots, there are still positions available, then the Company would, at that point, pursuant to Section II. B. 10., be required to offer those positions to West pilots before hiring any new pilots.

I still think that everyone who wants to return ,east and west and that includes west guys coming east to fill classes will happen by dec/jan with hiring shortly after. Just my opinion

 

[Metrojet]

You have nothing to worry about as long as the arbitrated list is used.

Do not fret Metro, it will be the Nic.

Cowboy75

Ha Ha - I get it - the furloughed westies will take a recall to an East Bid Captain slot (under your proposed uncashable lottery ticket)!

Metrojet
P.S. - I sort of enjoyed your boxing match with St Nic on another thread - is that an indication of what it would be like when/if we ever work on the same flightdeck?

 

[Tweaker]

I still think that everyone who wants to return ,east and west and that includes west guys coming east to fill classes will happen by dec/jan with hiring shortly after. Just my opinion

Oy vey, man. That is what I just said earlier when you started questioning my predicktions!?!?

I also hoped you were correct about the West pilots coming east if they want. Can't win for losing sometimes. I certainly never got all "excited." Capt. Z can attest that this is me at my most diplomatic.

Capt Z. - Good post, and it is maddening, for sure. At least you have an old 4 engine thing to drive around in the meantime. It even has an 8 in it, like ya like!

 

[Mike November]

M N PM me please when you get more info.

Thx
3 3 5

Will do brada.

 

[Question4U]

I still think that everyone who wants to return ,east and west and that includes west guys coming east to fill classes will happen by dec/jan with hiring shortly after. Just my opinion

There is still 100+ furlough's on the west and 40 or so on the east. I think realistically everybody will be offered recall by summer.

 

[Crzipilot]

No east bid for december. So anything more will happen for Jan or later bid....

Which I guess we'll know sometime Oct/Nov for Jan bid...