US Airways hiring

[weasel_lips]

There will be furloughs, but it will be due to the age 60 change and the excess capacity that occurs with EVERY merger. Doug won't keep 500 extra pilots for the next 4 years with virtually no attrition. So all us junior pilots get to be unemployed so grandpa can keep his standard of living for 5 more years. Thanks guys. Let the class warfare and fights in the cockpit begin.

And what was ALPA's position on this?

 

[weasel_lips]

Nice use of FUD idiot, but if you were to do some research you would find that a joint CBA would require the hiring of more pilots. The west has better work rules and more vacation. But alas, no one can reason with the east. Vote in usapa and good luck in the next merger. I'm sure ALPA will love making sure the east guys get all that they deserve. Karma.......it's a b*#ch.

Require hiring? More like it will allow furloughing. Perhaps you should do some research and not think about just yourself.

Not that it matters to me, I am moving on to another job here shortly.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

From what I see and the folks I talk to, I think that ALPA is gone at Airways. The letter that Prater sent last week I think sealed it. Regardless of what people think about the issues or which side they are on, it is very clear that ALPA is now in the habit of ignoring various pilot groups in favor of their own whims.

Age 65, merger issues, regional issues etc. This is now the third airline that I have seen it happen to. Regardless of how you stand on various subjects I think that it is very clear that ALPA national follows their own agenda, and more often than not it is in direct opposition to what the membership voted on or wants.

I have been told by both NWA and UA guys that they are keenly watching current events and that they fully expect that ALPA has a limited life span on their properties as well. In the words of the NWA guy "ALPA is soon going to be the national union of the regionals only."

It is hard to ignore the fact that the best paid, best QOL and strongest pax hauling airlines out there are not ALPA. In the case of Airways they now have 10 airlines flying in one paint job, with ALPA I think representing 8 of them, none of which have a QOL or job security worth a darn.

There is no way that a union can protect both the mainline and the regional of the same carrier anymore. The RJ's are too big and the routes are the same......one or the other side has to lose.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Require hiring? More like it will allow furloughing. Perhaps you should do some research and not think about just yourself.

Not that it matters to me, I am moving on to another job here shortly.

Any chance you can bring a few of your nasty friends along with you ??



PHXFLYR

 

[TWA Dude]

From what I see and the folks I talk to, I think that ALPA is gone at Airways.

Don't forget that both East and West groups will be voting on this. Expect maybe ten AWA guys to vote for USAPA (chairman-wannabees) so that means over 75% (there's an exact number available but not off the top of my head) of Easties will need to vote for them. I needn't remind anybody here that few representational elections garner such high percentages. Not to mention, the usually high percentage of pilots who don't even bother to vote.

What I'm getting at is that USAPA is no shoe-in. While dissatifaction with ALPA may be near-universal (on both sides!) there are a plenty of pragmatic pilots on the East who recognize that USAPA is no panacea and in fact could make things worse. They've already made promises that can't be kept. Many guys who signed the cards were making a protest but in the end won't vote for USAPA.

www.USAPA.org

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Don't forget that both East and West groups will be voting on this. Expect maybe ten AWA guys to vote for USAPA (chairman-wannabees) so that means over 75% (there's an exact number available but not off the top of my head) of Easties will need to vote for them. I needn't remind anybody here that few representational elections garner such high percentages. Not to mention, the usually high percentage of pilots who don't even bother to vote.

What I'm getting at is that USAPA is no shoe-in. While dissatifaction with ALPA may be near-universal (on both sides!) there are a plenty of pragmatic pilots on the East who recognize that USAPA is no panacea and in fact could make things worse. They've already made promises that can't be kept. Many guys who signed the cards were making a protest but in the end won't vote for USAPA.

www.USAPA.org

Thats always possible. What I am seeing out there does not show it though. In the words of one guy, "A few months ago I was on the fence, a wait and see what ALPA does to try to fix the mess, get the guys to the table find something that would work for both groups, After recent events and actions it is clear that ALPA does not care about it's various pilot groups and is only after one thing, money. They will not be getting any more of mine if I can help it."

In the last month I have not found a single pilot at airways (East) that will vote to keep ALPA. Granted I am only one guy and in no way do I have contact with all the pilots.

For me it is the cumulitive effect over the years. Small things up to major things that all points to what ALPA really stands for....our money and nothing else.

Cut off from webboard when we (furloughed guys) dissented with ALPA decisions that affected us. (85 hour limit to 95 hour limit that kept us furloughed longer, BK issues etc etc etc. Ignoring pilot group wishes at my furlough job (Another ALPA carrier) during contract time in favor of the larger pilot group (another merger) that led to a strike being our only option. No wish to speak with us or answer our questions while on furlough and before until all the sudden now I matter again because I get a vote on tossing them out, now they want to s#ck my cork on a daily basis judging from the flood of PR e-mails I get. Where was this concern for me when I was facing furlough, strike, and while I watched ALPA sanction the outsourcing of my job in the form of DC-9 and f-100 sized jets to the regionals?

It has not been lost on me either that the only group in the country that has taken an active stance to bring all flying under a single brand back to a single seniority list is not ALPA. APA at AA is the only ones will enough gonads to try it, why??? because they only represent AA pilots!!!! Wow what a concept! ALPA will never ever fix this industry as long as they try to collect the money from all the players, and they have no intention of rocking that cash boat. Heaven forbid that they take a stand against the outsourcing and whipsawing.....it would cost them money in dues.

A huge amount of our problems are in a large part due to ALPA's actions or inactions, we need to be looking to SWA, AA, and the other "free souls" for our guidence to the future. In my mind from experience at three different ALPA carriers, they have no intention or willingness to do what needs to be done, they are in the business of making money. The ALPA of the 30's and 40's is long dead. Now they are just a different form of airline mgmt.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Just to add, I am not saying that USAPA is the end all be all answer, or that they will not have a tough time of it or if it will even work. But After 15 years as a 121 airline pilot at 4 Airlines and seeing the destruction of a once good career, I am positive that ALPA has long ago lost it's way.

I keep hearing over and over out there in USAirway land..."It cannot get any worse for me or my career, might as well think outside the box and give it a shot, I already have nothing left in retirement, job security or QOL, a new union couldn't f$%k it up worse than the pros at ALPA already have."

Of course there are small variations in the statement, but that was the way I first heard it stated.

Time will tell what the results of the drive will be, for me as just a pilot all I know is that the new crowd cannot hurt me more than the old crowd has. I still have 21....oh wait, 26 years left to be worked to the bone for half what I used to make with 1/4 the QOL.

 

[JetMonkey]

To me all I see from the pro usapa guys is nearsightedness. Forget for a moment all about the single CBA, nic or just plan east/west bickering. IF we're all usapa what do you guys think is going to happen during the next merger? Remember US Airways is the smallest of the 6, which to me means if we're not Alpa, then we're in trouble. Case in point, back when America West had an inhouse union (AWAPA) and had the United merger actually happened. Alpa would've easily been the surviving union and all the AWA pilots probably would've been stapled. Now, I'm no advocate of Alpa by any means, but I've said it before, in this case it's the lesser of two evils. Usapa will have NO CHANCE of surviving the next merger. Whatever your so called "clauses" and by-laws that some fancy lawyer wrote up won't mean squat if we're the smaller carrier, which WE WILL BE. Both sides east and west will come up on the short end of the stick.

 

[charlie2]

I have flown with 20 different Capts over the past few months and everyone of them is very vocal about getting rid of ALPA.

 

[Lampshade]

AWA had a in house union? I think you speakn jive.