United Hiring Questions

[pianoman]

The expense to furloughing only kicks in if someone on the seniority at DOS gets furloughed. Any newhires after that don't have the same protections except for the UAX hiring.

You are correct; I should have split that into two parts.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Hey EX737, I am trying to decide which future job sucks the least. Whats your input on why UAL sucks? Anyone have any input on the chances of the newhires being furloughed once the lists are merged? To those who post, thanks for the good information.

1400+ furloughs that have yet to be recalled. Some are flying for lcal and most are still on the street and will probably continue to elect to do so until the ISL(integrated seniority list) is completed. Lcal will be hiring off the street until then to fill the void.

If you are hired at lcal, which is where you will be until the ISL is completed and we are one list, you will be junior to ALL 1400+ lual furloughees. And you will continue to be so until they have all been recalled on the new ISL. That list should be finished sometime in 2013.

So basically, there will be no movement for you or any other new hire for quite some time. Lets say the ISL takes 8 months and then recalls begin 2 months after that at 30 a month. You will continually have 30 pilots a month coming in on top off you at that rate for almost four years, plus the time it took for the ISL to be completed and the recalls to start.

In essence you could quite possibly be on the bottom of the list for the next 4-5 years. Get a copy of the ta and see if that's something you could live with.

As for more furloughs, I doubt it as we have been understaffed for several years now. Add the new 737's coming in this year as well as the age 65 guys leaving and we should be getting close to where we should be.

 

[Flyer1015]

With current Continental, which is where one would be hired, what's the first year pay rate and when does medical kick in? After 30 days?

 

[eaglesview]

With current Continental, which is where one would be hired, what's the first year pay rate and when does medical kick in? After 30 days?

Wait and see what happens Saturday.

 

[RT8VA]

It would be day one if the assumption that this passes is correct which I believe it is. First year pay on all equipment would be $60.92 per hour and if you flew international a $4.50 overide. When you hit second year the contract would be in its second full year so year 2 pay would vary depending on what you flew but $97.25 on an Airbus and $126.07 on the 767-4 and larger. The 757 and large 737 have a couple of different rates 101 and 104 per hour. Hope this helps with your choice good luck.

 

[RT8VA]

and the it would be day one was referencing insurance coverage being day one

 

[Flyer1015]

Wait and see what happens Saturday.

So if this TA passes, it affects all newhires on the Continental side, paying and abiding by the new TA?

 

[Lear70]

So basically, there will be no movement for you or any other new hire for quite some time. Lets say the ISL takes 8 months and then recalls begin 2 months after that at 30 a month. You will continually have 30 pilots a month coming in on top off you at that rate for almost four years, plus the time it took for the ISL to be completed and the recalls to start.

In essence you could quite possibly be on the bottom of the list for the next 4-5 years. Get a copy of the ta and see if that's something you could live with.

So a new-hire would likely be on reserve for half a decade, upgrading in about 12-15 years?

Ouch...

Wonder how many UAL furloughees are at AAI or SWA or DAL and won't take recall? Have you guys been tracking your furloughees?

 

[Flyer1015]

So a new-hire would likely be on reserve for half a decade, upgrading in about 12-15 years?

Ouch...

Wonder how many UAL furloughees are at AAI or SWA or DAL and won't take recall? Have you guys been tracking your furloughees?

The combined UniCal will be retiring about 400 per year for the foreseeable future. Getting off reserve may be quicker than you think.

 

[Lear70]

The combined UniCal will be retiring about 400 per year for the foreseeable future. Getting off reserve may be quicker than you think.

1,400 still furloughed at 400 per year is 3 1/2 years, possibly less time for growth airplanes, depending on whether the combined airline shrinks in the near future? Then another year or two of 400 per year retirements to have enough new-hires to push a person hired now off reserve = 4 - 6 years, depending on the hiring variable and if people don't take recall?

Not looking to start over, just lurking and didn't realize that many people were still on the street there... Being furloughed sucks, I know. Hope everyone gets back if they want to sooner than later!

 

[Jetjockey]

1,400 still furloughed at 400 per year is 3 1/2 years, possibly less time for growth airplanes, depending on whether the combined airline shrinks in the near future? Then another year or two of 400 per year retirements to have enough new-hires to push a person hired now off reserve = 4 - 6 years, depending on the hiring variable and if people don't take recall?

Not looking to start over, just lurking and didn't realize that many people were still on the street there... Being furloughed sucks, I know. Hope everyone gets back if they want to sooner than later!

Incorrect. More than 400 UAL have come over to the CAL side. They will have to hire sooner rather than later. The work rules, combined with FAR rest rule changes will drive new hiring off the street.

 

[eaglesview]

So if this TA passes, it affects all newhires on the Continental side, paying and abiding by the new TA?

Yes it would be a joint contract all but ending "UAL/CAL" sides with just the SLI to go.

 

[Mad Dog 80]

Any off the street hiring taking place in January?

 

[Andy]

1,400 still furloughed at 400 per year is 3 1/2 years, possibly less time for growth airplanes, depending on whether the combined airline shrinks in the near future? Then another year or two of 400 per year retirements to have enough new-hires to push a person hired now off reserve = 4 - 6 years, depending on the hiring variable and if people don't take recall?

Not looking to start over, just lurking and didn't realize that many people were still on the street there... Being furloughed sucks, I know. Hope everyone gets back if they want to sooner than later!

The total number of LUAL furloughs is 1435 (was 1437; one died and one turned 65). The actual number is probably lower; I only know of those two.

There are ~400 LUAL pilots currently flying at LCAL or in the training pipeline.

LUAL pilots have 10 years' recall rights from date of furlough. That has not changed in the new contract, so all pilots under the new contract will have 10 years' recall rights. Because of this, many will not return anytime in the near future.

On the last round of LUAL recalls in 2006-2008, approximately 2/3s of 2172 returned to LUAL. Those that bypassed a second time lost all recall rights (the 10 year recall rights were added in the contract rewrite).

The number of retirements in 2006-2008 at LUAL were less than the combined LUAL/LCAL retirements.

The new contract is supposed to require ~700 more pilots in order to fly in accordance with the contract.

737 training at LCAL is maxed out. When I went through training, someone high up in the training dept talked to our class and stated that they were looking 'worldwide' for available 737 sim time. AFAIK, no sim outsourcing has occurred yet.

Prior to the new contract, all LUAL furloughees had been offered a training slot at LCAL and they began to hire off of the street.

How many LUAL furloughees will return due to the new contract? Maybe another 400. That would tie up current available training for another year. If they outsource sim time, that time decreases.

 

[Andy]

Any off the street hiring taking place in January?

I ran into a trainee in IAH. He had been hired at UAL in 2008 but never got a class date. He's in an early December class.
While it's off the street hiring, that's not exactly what you wanted to know.
The last time I heard the pilot in charge of hiring, Capt Charlie Venema, discussing the hiring plan (it's been a few months), they were going to initially offer jobs to furloughed ALPA pilots first and then open hiring up to all pilots. He specifically mentioned a hiring preference to Comair pilots.

With the new contract, I would expect a decent number of LUAL 2007-2008 newhires to accept a job at LCAL. The payrates are significantly better than what they would have returned to under the old contract. There were only ~195 newhires at LUAL in 2007/8 and some have already accepted jobs at LCAL so this isn't a gamechanger.

Again, the hiring plan is somewhat dated information. I'll try to update once I get a chance to talk to someone in training. Since I'm IAH based and stay in some of the same hotels as trainees, I get a pretty good idea of new class composition.

 

[kj6991]

Any off the street hiring taking place in January?

Have you been paying any attention to anything? I swear you are a half retarded 4th grader. I hope someone does finally hire you somewhere so these types of questions finally vanish... There are endless threads on all information and questions you have ever asked.

 

[152SIC]

I was hired in early 2008 by LUAL and never received a class date. 3/24/2008 was when I received a letter from Kay stating that classes were put on hold.

I haven't heard anything from UAL recently. Any idea if they are going to call the rest of those hired at LUAL who didn't have class dates?

Thanks!

I ran into a trainee in IAH. He had been hired at UAL in 2008 but never got a class date. He's in an early December class.
While it's off the street hiring, that's not exactly what you wanted to know.
The last time I heard the pilot in charge of hiring, Capt Charlie Venema, discussing the hiring plan (it's been a few months), they were going to initially offer jobs to furloughed ALPA pilots first and then open hiring up to all pilots. He specifically mentioned a hiring preference to Comair pilots.

With the new contract, I would expect a decent number of LUAL 2007-2008 newhires to accept a job at LCAL. The payrates are significantly better than what they would have returned to under the old contract. There were only ~195 newhires at LUAL in 2007/8 and some have already accepted jobs at LCAL so this isn't a gamechanger.

Again, the hiring plan is somewhat dated information. I'll try to update once I get a chance to talk to someone in training. Since I'm IAH based and stay in some of the same hotels as trainees, I get a pretty good idea of new class composition.

 

[Andy]

I was hired in early 2008 by LUAL and never received a class date. 3/24/2008 was when I received a letter from Kay stating that classes were put on hold.

I haven't heard anything from UAL recently. Any idea if they are going to call the rest of those hired at LUAL who didn't have class dates?

Thanks!

I sent you a PM.

 

[152SIC]

Thanks for the PM Andy, I tried to reply back but your PM inbox is full.

 

[Andy]

Thanks for the PM Andy, I tried to reply back but your PM inbox is full.

The guy that I spoke to had a class date back in 2008; I don't know how much of a difference that makes.