Unical SLI is out...

[WolfManPack]

This is a bunch of crap...why would the arbitrators give a crap about ALPA? I find it funny that all this anger is spewed toward the L UAL pilots like we wrote the award. As I have said before why don't any of you CO pilots ask your own merger committee why they failed to send in a proposal that used the stated guidelines. That,s where your anger should be.

Pierce's letter to your group says it all when he said he got not one letter, phone call or email during the process. You were all ok then but you all want to bitch now.

The only thing ALPA. Should be " punished" for is forgiving all of the pilots on your side hired in the mid 80's. that is what we ( all of us) should never forget.

Listen, I'm not going to get into a tit for tat argument with you regarding the award. ALPO won, it benefited you and that's that. Having said that, the reason nobody contacted Peirce about the SLI arguments on our side is because most, like me, assumed that the folks we put in place to represent us in this process knew what they were doing and were truly subject matter experts.

You'll get no argument from me regarding the quality of representation "my side" received during the arbitration but what you should realize is that this was never about either "side" it was about ALPO.

EVERYBODY knows that ALPO restructured their merger policy to ensure maximum chances that no decertification process would be successful after the next most likely merger between UAL and CAL. You have to give credit where credit is due....ALPO is very good at taking care of itself....it's just not good at actually representing the interests of all of it members simultaneously.

Overnight CAL side pilots in some cases have gone from bidding better than 50% in their respective base, equip, status to being junior reserve pilots. If you can't admit that is a severe windfall for one side then you are simply not being intellectually honest.

Really I would suggest you keep your gloating to yourself and just enjoy your windfall. Are you also the type of person that after having been a part of a team that decimates the other side that goes and laughs the opponent and taunts them. That's what you guys are doing whether you realize it or not.

 

[eaglesview]

Listen, I'm not going to get into a tit for tat argument with you regarding the award. ALPO won, it benefited you and that's that. Having said that, the reason nobody contacted Peirce about the SLI arguments on our side is because most, like me, assumed that the folks we put in place to represent us in this process knew what they were doing and were truly subject matter experts.

You'll get no argument from me regarding the quality of representation "my side" received during the arbitration but what you should realize is that this was never about either "side" it was about ALPO.

EVERYBODY knows that ALPO restructured their merger policy to ensure maximum chances that no decertification process would be successful after the next most likely merger between UAL and CAL. You have to give credit where credit is due....ALPO is very good at taking care of itself....it's just not good at actually representing the interests of all of it members simultaneously.

Overnight CAL side pilots in some cases have gone from bidding better than 50% in their respective base, equip, status to being junior reserve pilots. If you can't admit that is a severe windfall for one side then you are simply not being intellectually honest.

Really I would suggest you keep your gloating to yourself and just enjoy your windfall. Are you also the type of person that after having been a part of a team that decimates the other side that goes and laughs the opponent and taunts them. That's what you guys are doing whether you realize it or not.

No I just think your anger is misplaced. good day.

 

[Flopgut]

The only thing ALPA. Should be " punished" for is forgiving all of the pilots on your side hired in the mid 80's. that is what we ( all of us) should never forget.

Sorry, but you have to drop that stuff immediately. Unless you want to lump every pilot LUAL hired in 85 into that group, it no longer matters. I'm not going to thread that needle any more. I can't understand how guys like you act tough over that but give your own strike breakers a pass.

 

[eaglesview]

Sorry, but you have to drop that stuff immediately. Unless you want to lump every pilot LUAL hired in 85 into that group, it no longer matters. I'm not going to thread that needle any more. I can't understand how guys like you act tough over that but give your own strike breakers a pass.

I respectfully disagree. I do not forgive strike breakers and have never given our strike breakers a pass. The MAJOR difference here is ALPA gave the CO strike breakers a pass. No such pass, and rightfully so, was given to the UAL strike breakers.

It is not a difficult needle to thread. You either are one or you are not. The uniform you wear matters not.

 

[Flopgut]

I respectfully disagree. I do not forgive strike breakers and have never given our strike breakers a pass. The MAJOR difference here is ALPA gave the CO strike breakers a pass. No such pass, and rightfully so, was given to the UAL strike breakers.

It is not a difficult needle to thread. You either are one or you are not. The uniform you wear matters not.

There are pilots on CALs list that did no more wrong than 570s & 539s. If you intend to keep your list and your grudge you can put them ALL on it. Or my suggestion: Drop it.

Btw: the aforementioned UAL pilots are the ones who exiled the Frontier pilots in 86 so they could immediately upgrade. If you scale the inequities and who the culprits were, this is just as bad as what happened to you at Eastern.

Again, I can tell you from working at CAL, the quicker you can stow those feelings and stop feeding junior pilots your whole story, the better our futures will be.

 

[eaglesview]

There are pilots on CALs list that did no more wrong than 570s & 539s. If you intend to keep your list and your grudge you can put them ALL on it. Or my suggestion: Drop it.

Btw: the aforementioned UAL pilots are the ones who exiled the Frontier pilots in 86 so they could immediately upgrade. If you scale the inequities and who the culprits were, this is just as bad as what happened to you at Eastern.

Again, I can tell you from working at CAL, the quicker you can stow those feelings and stop feeding junior pilots your whole story, the better our futures will be.

Again I disagree on some points. Our 539 are strike breakers. The 570 may have. We will never know. What you are missing here is that our " labor union" and I use that term loosely with ALPA, forgave the CO strike breakers. That is the issue here.

As for dropping it so I can " get along" with them, that is not going to happen. I am sure I will get along with the majority of the pilots from CO as I am sure they are mostly good guys with a few cooks, just like us but not them.

 

[G100driver]

Sorry, but you have to drop that stuff immediately. Unless you want to lump every pilot LUAL hired in 85 into that group, it no longer matters. I'm not going to thread that needle any more. I can't understand how guys like you act tough over that but give your own strike breakers a pass.

No dog here ... but I have never heard of a United pilot ever giving a scab a pass. Most are professional in the cockpit with the guys, but beyond that, nothing else.

 

[Flopgut]

Again I disagree on some points. Our 539 are strike breakers. The 570 may have. We will never know. What you are missing here is that our " labor union" and I use that term loosely with ALPA, forgave the CO strike breakers. That is the issue here.

As for dropping it so I can " get along" with them, that is not going to happen. I am sure I will get along with the majority of the pilots from CO as I am sure they are mostly good guys with a few cooks, just like us but not them.

I fly airplanes for money. I'm not without regard for those of you that got back stabbed years ago. But I want more money to do this job, for me and you and all of us. You (especially) can set a certain example here. In fact, it was a TI striker that explained the same to me years ago, the bigger deal we make of it, the more money we leave on the table.

 

[Flopgut]

Eagles view: If you can tell me that chain smoking hate is easily worth several hundred thousand dollars+, then great! I'm with you, as long as the 570s are on the list too.

 

[eaglesview]

Flops,
I can agree with most of your points. I also fly airplanes for money as do most of us. The strike breakers are more than happy to do it for less if they can take advantage of you fighting for what you think is fair compensation. S I agree with your sentiment but disagree with the just get along kind of thinking. Put the 570 on your list if you want to, you won't get much of an argument from me.

 

[RT8VA]

First the Eagles suck and I am looking forward to them getting hammered all year.
Second ALPA should have never brought the scabs back in to the union but all ALPA cares about is how many members it has, this is not a union and it hasn't been for years. The big difference is ALPA needed the votes to get on property, had they needed a vote from the L-UAL pilots I have no doubt Dwayne would have had open arms to all of the UAL scabs. ALPA serves ALPA nothing less nothing more.
Have any of you ever wondered why you can vote for the president of this country but you are 3 votes removed from the president of this "union".

 

[PCL_128]

First the Eagles suck and I am looking forward to them getting hammered all year.

At least we can agree on something.

Second ALPA should have never brought the scabs back in to the union but all ALPA cares about is how many members it has, this is not a union and it hasn't been for years. The big difference is ALPA needed the votes to get on property, had they needed a vote from the L-UAL pilots I have no doubt Dwayne would have had open arms to all of the UAL scabs. ALPA serves ALPA nothing less nothing more.

So ALPA should have ignored the pleas of the majority of the CAL pilots who wanted back into ALPA and were not SCABs? Because legally, ALPA had only two choice:

1. Tell all of the CAL pilots to screw off; or

2. Let the SCABs back in in order to get the non-SCAB CAL pilots in.

There was no third option. Because of a court ruling, ALPA could not bring non-SCAB CAL pilots into the union without also allowing the SCABs.

Have any of you ever wondered why you can vote for the president of this country but you are 3 votes removed from the president of this "union".

I don't think I would use our country's dysfunctional government as an example for anything.

 

[RT8VA]

Pcl I rarely agree with you but I think our government is completely diss functional. Having said that there is no reason I know of that the members shouldn't get a direct vote.
Scabs beat ALPA at cal and now they are members not sure how that isn't a problem in every ones mind. ALPA didn't do it for the majority of the cal pilots they did it for ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

Pcl I rarely agree with you but I think our government is completely diss functional. Having said that there is no reason I know of that the members shouldn't get a direct vote.

The members shouldn't get a direct vote because it doesn't work well. Whether at the NPA, the APA, USAPA, it just doesn't work. Someone gets elected to the top spot by the membership, and then when the governing bodies issue direction, he doesn't want to follow it because he claims he has "a mandate from the rank and file." The president is supposed to be following direction from the governing bodies, who take their direction from the members who elect them. Therefore, the president needs to be elected from the governing body (the BOD).

Scabs beat ALPA at cal and now they are members not sure how that isn't a problem in every ones mind.

Who said it wasn't a problem? It was just the lesser of two evils. Choices are rarely black and white in the real world.

 

[eaglesview]

First the Eagles suck and I am looking forward to them getting hammered all year.
Second ALPA should have never brought the scabs back in to the union but all ALPA cares about is how many members it has, this is not a union and it hasn't been for years. The big difference is ALPA needed the votes to get on property, had they needed a vote from the L-UAL pilots I have no doubt Dwayne would have had open arms to all of the UAL scabs. ALPA serves ALPA nothing less nothing more.
Have any of you ever wondered why you can vote for the president of this country but you are 3 votes removed from the president of this "union".

One of your points here is ridiculously wrong. (Let the games begin though I admit I don't have high hopes)
You are correct concerning our pos union. This is why all CAL pilots wether they have a pin or not get looked up when they jumpseat with me. This is also why I think an in house union will gain traction after this merger is complete and the dust settles. Hopefully the CO pilots continue with there misplaced anger at ALPA so we get those votes as well.