Unical SLI is out...

[eaglesview]

There are pilots on CALs list that did no more wrong than 570s & 539s. If you intend to keep your list and your grudge you can put them ALL on it. Or my suggestion: Drop it.

Btw: the aforementioned UAL pilots are the ones who exiled the Frontier pilots in 86 so they could immediately upgrade. If you scale the inequities and who the culprits were, this is just as bad as what happened to you at Eastern.

Again, I can tell you from working at CAL, the quicker you can stow those feelings and stop feeding junior pilots your whole story, the better our futures will be.

Again I disagree on some points. Our 539 are strike breakers. The 570 may have. We will never know. What you are missing here is that our " labor union" and I use that term loosely with ALPA, forgave the CO strike breakers. That is the issue here.

As for dropping it so I can " get along" with them, that is not going to happen. I am sure I will get along with the majority of the pilots from CO as I am sure they are mostly good guys with a few cooks, just like us but not them.

 

[G100driver]

Sorry, but you have to drop that stuff immediately. Unless you want to lump every pilot LUAL hired in 85 into that group, it no longer matters. I'm not going to thread that needle any more. I can't understand how guys like you act tough over that but give your own strike breakers a pass.

No dog here ... but I have never heard of a United pilot ever giving a scab a pass. Most are professional in the cockpit with the guys, but beyond that, nothing else.

 

[Flopgut]

Again I disagree on some points. Our 539 are strike breakers. The 570 may have. We will never know. What you are missing here is that our " labor union" and I use that term loosely with ALPA, forgave the CO strike breakers. That is the issue here.

As for dropping it so I can " get along" with them, that is not going to happen. I am sure I will get along with the majority of the pilots from CO as I am sure they are mostly good guys with a few cooks, just like us but not them.

I fly airplanes for money. I'm not without regard for those of you that got back stabbed years ago. But I want more money to do this job, for me and you and all of us. You (especially) can set a certain example here. In fact, it was a TI striker that explained the same to me years ago, the bigger deal we make of it, the more money we leave on the table.

 

[Flopgut]

Eagles view: If you can tell me that chain smoking hate is easily worth several hundred thousand dollars+, then great! I'm with you, as long as the 570s are on the list too.

 

[eaglesview]

Flops,
I can agree with most of your points. I also fly airplanes for money as do most of us. The strike breakers are more than happy to do it for less if they can take advantage of you fighting for what you think is fair compensation. S I agree with your sentiment but disagree with the just get along kind of thinking. Put the 570 on your list if you want to, you won't get much of an argument from me.

 

[RT8VA]

First the Eagles suck and I am looking forward to them getting hammered all year.
Second ALPA should have never brought the scabs back in to the union but all ALPA cares about is how many members it has, this is not a union and it hasn't been for years. The big difference is ALPA needed the votes to get on property, had they needed a vote from the L-UAL pilots I have no doubt Dwayne would have had open arms to all of the UAL scabs. ALPA serves ALPA nothing less nothing more.
Have any of you ever wondered why you can vote for the president of this country but you are 3 votes removed from the president of this "union".

 

[PCL_128]

First the Eagles suck and I am looking forward to them getting hammered all year.

At least we can agree on something.

Second ALPA should have never brought the scabs back in to the union but all ALPA cares about is how many members it has, this is not a union and it hasn't been for years. The big difference is ALPA needed the votes to get on property, had they needed a vote from the L-UAL pilots I have no doubt Dwayne would have had open arms to all of the UAL scabs. ALPA serves ALPA nothing less nothing more.

So ALPA should have ignored the pleas of the majority of the CAL pilots who wanted back into ALPA and were not SCABs? Because legally, ALPA had only two choice:

1. Tell all of the CAL pilots to screw off; or

2. Let the SCABs back in in order to get the non-SCAB CAL pilots in.

There was no third option. Because of a court ruling, ALPA could not bring non-SCAB CAL pilots into the union without also allowing the SCABs.

Have any of you ever wondered why you can vote for the president of this country but you are 3 votes removed from the president of this "union".

I don't think I would use our country's dysfunctional government as an example for anything.

 

[RT8VA]

Pcl I rarely agree with you but I think our government is completely diss functional. Having said that there is no reason I know of that the members shouldn't get a direct vote.
Scabs beat ALPA at cal and now they are members not sure how that isn't a problem in every ones mind. ALPA didn't do it for the majority of the cal pilots they did it for ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

Pcl I rarely agree with you but I think our government is completely diss functional. Having said that there is no reason I know of that the members shouldn't get a direct vote.

The members shouldn't get a direct vote because it doesn't work well. Whether at the NPA, the APA, USAPA, it just doesn't work. Someone gets elected to the top spot by the membership, and then when the governing bodies issue direction, he doesn't want to follow it because he claims he has "a mandate from the rank and file." The president is supposed to be following direction from the governing bodies, who take their direction from the members who elect them. Therefore, the president needs to be elected from the governing body (the BOD).

Scabs beat ALPA at cal and now they are members not sure how that isn't a problem in every ones mind.

Who said it wasn't a problem? It was just the lesser of two evils. Choices are rarely black and white in the real world.

 

[eaglesview]

First the Eagles suck and I am looking forward to them getting hammered all year.
Second ALPA should have never brought the scabs back in to the union but all ALPA cares about is how many members it has, this is not a union and it hasn't been for years. The big difference is ALPA needed the votes to get on property, had they needed a vote from the L-UAL pilots I have no doubt Dwayne would have had open arms to all of the UAL scabs. ALPA serves ALPA nothing less nothing more.
Have any of you ever wondered why you can vote for the president of this country but you are 3 votes removed from the president of this "union".

One of your points here is ridiculously wrong. (Let the games begin though I admit I don't have high hopes)
You are correct concerning our pos union. This is why all CAL pilots wether they have a pin or not get looked up when they jumpseat with me. This is also why I think an in house union will gain traction after this merger is complete and the dust settles. Hopefully the CO pilots continue with there misplaced anger at ALPA so we get those votes as well.

 

[RT8VA]

You mean the eagles point? Lol I doubt they win more than 5 games.

 

[taxicabdriver]

COMPLETE BS. The junior man matrix shows junior systemwide captain to be 737 in NYC. #9821, file number M3881. Add 4000 to that and you get #13821.
Here's where you run into problems ... there are only a total of 12434 pilots on the new seniority list, INCLUDING newhires.

Now, to further verify that you're not being honest, let's look at the junior captain in award 12-03, from Sep 2010 (AFTER MAD). Junior captain was #2914 with file number C3904. 500 numbers below him on the 1/1/2012 LCAL seniority list is file number G9165. He is a 737 captain in IAH. In fact, he's number 560 of 626 IAH captains. And there's another 46 737 EWR captains below his number. That's more than 100 pilots awarded captain BELOW the pilot who was 500 below the junior captain award from 9/2010.

Well I don't agree with you either, but I see your point.... Mine is that the jr ual capt is around 6500 global on the new list, just under 4000 pilots above me. Nobody around 9800 will be getting into the left seat anytime soon. The cal side had growth and movement, not so much the same on the ual side, but now they are going to be benefiting from all the movement and upgrades that were the norm over here. Good for them. So according to my redneck math that is not the windfall that you said in an earlier post that cal received. I guessed I was around 75% global in 2010 and 83 on the new sli. All that being said, I'm past the sli, not worried or burnt about it in any way, and am ready to move on together to fight bigger targets. I have many other things in life that are more important than this job, really the only reason I posted in the first place is to point out that I don't feel like I personally got a windfall or anything close to it.
And thank God football is finally back!!

 

[SWA Bubba]

This is a bunch of crap...why would the arbitrators give a crap about ALPA? I find it funny that all this anger is spewed toward the L UAL pilots like we wrote the award. As I have said before why don't any of you CO pilots ask your own merger committee why they failed to send in a proposal that used the stated guidelines. That,s where your anger should be.

Pierce's letter to your group says it all when he said he got not one letter, phone call or email during the process. You were all ok then but you all want to bitch now.

The only thing ALPA. Should be " punished" for is forgiving all of the pilots on your side hired in the mid 80's. that is what we ( all of us) should never forget.

I think the implication was not so much that they cared about ALPA per se, but rather that by "favoring" the larger side, they ensured that the side who felt "most screwed" couldn't form their "own USAPA" to overturn the arbitration award, and create another USAir east/west debacle. They wouldn't have the numbers to pull it off.

I'm not saying I agree with that characterization, but that's what -I- heard in my head when I read Wolfmanpack's post.

Bubba

 

[kwick]

I think the implication was not so much that they cared about ALPA per se, but rather that by "favoring" the larger side, they ensured that the side who felt "most screwed" couldn't form their "own USAPA" to overturn the arbitration award, and create another USAir east/west debacle. They wouldn't have the numbers to pull it off.

I'm not saying I agree with that characterization, but that's what -I- heard in my head when I read Wolfmanpack's post.

Bubba[/QUOT



Moron!

 

[SWA Bubba]

I think the implication was not so much that they cared about ALPA per se, but rather that by "favoring" the larger side, they ensured that the side who felt "most screwed" couldn't form their "own USAPA" to overturn the arbitration award, and create another USAir east/west debacle. They wouldn't have the numbers to pull it off.

I'm not saying I agree with that characterization, but that's what -I- heard in my head when I read Wolfmanpack's post.

Bubba[/QUOT



Moron!

Kwick,

You're not being very clear. Are you calling the original poster a moron? Are you calling me a moron for going into more detail about how someone else's post came across? Or are you calling me a moron because I didn't agree with that poster's implication, while you might? Or because somehow, despite my disclaimer, you still mistakenly concluded that I agreed with the characterization?

Or, more likely, are you calling yourself a moron because you have reading comprehension issues, and don't really know what the discussion was really about?

Anxiously awaiting your next witty and cogent contribution.

Bubba

 

[chppr5]

Well I don't agree with you either, but I see your point.... Mine is that the jr ual capt is around 6500 global on the new list, just under 4000 pilots above me. Nobody around 9800 will be getting into the left seat anytime soon. The cal side had growth and movement, not so much the same on the ual side, but now they are going to be benefiting from all the movement and upgrades that were the norm over here. Good for them. So according to my redneck math that is not the windfall that you said in an earlier post that cal received. I guessed I was around 75% global in 2010 and 83 on the new sli. All that being said, I'm past the sli, not worried or burnt about it in any way, and am ready to move on together to fight bigger targets. I have many other things in life that are more important than this job, really the only reason I posted in the first place is to point out that I don't feel like I personally got a windfall or anything close to it.
And thank God football is finally back!!

No, you didn't have growth you had MOVEMENT on the backs of LUAL. You have the same fleet count as MAD. All your so called growth came in a LUAL base!! Flying taken from LUAL block hours. I didn't see you guys complaining about your movement then, but now you complain about an award based on ALPA merger policy. A policy that was drafted by a LCAL guy. The same guy that wrote the desenting opinion of the Nic award, arguing LONGEVITY should be factored into an arbitrated award! Your MC gave you false hope on a strategy that mirrored USAirways in 2005. You want to blame someone, blame your MC or MEC or Katz for coming up with a seniority grab. We gave you 3 times the wide body count of LCAL and we have twice the retirements of LCAL. Suck it up and move on, I lost 7 1/2 yrs of longevity, never to see the jumbo cap seat that I would have at a stand alone UAL. READ the arbs opinion, that says it all!! Just because your MC and MEC floats talking points does not make them true. We are stuck with pay bandind and a sub standard contract because the CAL MEC was hell bent on using w2's and pay arguments for an SLI strategy. It failed because it DIDN'T align with ALPA merger policy.

 

[taxicabdriver]

No, you didn't have growth you had MOVEMENT on the backs of LUAL. You have the same fleet count as MAD. All your so called growth came in a LUAL base!! Flying taken from LUAL block hours. I didn't see you guys complaining about your movement then, but now you complain about an award based on ALPA merger policy. A policy that was drafted by a LCAL guy. The same guy that wrote the desenting opinion of the Nic award, arguing LONGEVITY should be factored into an arbitrated award! Your MC gave you false hope on a strategy that mirrored USAirways in 2005. You want to blame someone, blame your MC or MEC or Katz for coming up with a seniority grab. We gave you 3 times the wide body count of LCAL and we have twice the retirements of LCAL. Suck it up and move on, I lost 7 1/2 yrs of longevity, never to see the jumbo cap seat that I would have at a stand alone UAL. READ the arbs opinion, that says it all!! Just because your MC and MEC floats talking points does not make them true. We are stuck with pay bandind and a sub standard contract because the CAL MEC was hell bent on using w2's and pay arguments for an SLI strategy. It failed because it DIDN'T align with ALPA merger policy.

Re-read my post....I already said I'm past it. Maybe it is you who needs to move on

 

[chppr5]

Re-read my post....I already said I'm past it. Maybe it is you who needs to move on

Oh I read it and this quote stood out,

"The cal side had growth and movement, not so much the same on the ual side, but now they are going to be benefiting from all the movement and upgrades that were the norm over here. Good for them."

You are ready to move on with the illusion of all the LCAL organic growth. GMAFB!! I dont remember LCAL having bases in ORD,DEN,LAX before MAD.

 

[Flopgut]

You are ready to move on with the illusion of all the LCAL organic growth. GMAFB!! I dont remember LCAL having bases in ORD,DEN,LAX before MAD.

I don't remember 70 seat RJs in CLE, EWR or IAH before MAD. Those were LUAL airplanes...not our fault you weren't flying them. Those intruded on our flying/bases no different than CAL 737s did on what you call yours. If CAL had brought that scourge to the equation I'm sure we would never hear the end of it.

 

[Flopgut]

I think the implication was not so much that they cared about ALPA per se, but rather that by "favoring" the larger side, they ensured that the side who felt "most screwed" couldn't form their "own USAPA" to overturn the arbitration award, and create another USAir east/west debacle. They wouldn't have the numbers to pull it off.

I'm not saying I agree with that characterization, but that's what -I- heard in my head when I read Wolfmanpack's post.

Bubba

Lucid and accurate post.

I think the implication was not so much that they cared about ALPA per se, but rather that by "favoring" the larger side, they ensured that the side who felt "most screwed" couldn't form their "own USAPA" to overturn the arbitration award, and create another USAir east/west debacle. They wouldn't have the numbers to pull it off.

I'm not saying I agree with that characterization, but that's what -I- heard in my head when I read Wolfmanpack's post.

Bubba[/QUOT



Moron!

Yes you most certainly are one Kwick.