UAL to not make it through the Winter???

[bluechunks]

There are triggers around $2.2 bil $2.1 bil and lower. Each number activates a higher percentage of holdback by the credit companies. Yes, it will turn in to a death spiral because at the $2.0 bil trigger it gets really ugly (Read BK filing). FYI the reported unrestricted cash on hand was just $2.3 bil.

You also need to keep reading just a bit deeper into those 'triggers' and follow the money.

Who is UA's largest credit card processor? A: Chase

Who is UA's largest creditor? A: Chase (they participated in the DIP financing during BK and the BK exit financing after)

Who runs UA Mileage Plus CC program? A: Chase

Who is UA's largest single customer? A: Chase (they buy 'miles' in bulk for the cc program)

See a trend yet?

UA may very well go T.U. in the next year, but credit card triggers won't be the culprit. Chase is not going to induce a crisis that unless there is a benefit to Chase and triggering a CC holdback crisis only hurts Chase. Actions are louder than words: Chase has already made advance payments on miles to provide UA cash.

And if encumbered assets of 'only' $1B are an issue, how are Continental or JetBlue ever going to make it with ZERO unencumbered assets?

Obviously the issues are complex and challenging for UA, but simply stating that there is a magic 'bingo' number for BK due to cc issues is a gross oversimplification.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

That's what republicans would do

I think you mean, Do.
PBR

 

[whatitdoing?]

2.5 billion unrestricted cash sets the first trigger of 15 percent. The way that United has their agreements, this will automatically trigger the death spiral because of the huge financial obligations that United can't cover. This numbers aren't made up, they're out there. I can't remember the second trigger, but it's either below 2.5 or 2.1 billion, but it requires around 35 percent withholdings. United only has 2.6 Billion unrestricted with 2 quarters to lose 100 million. SO what do you think will happen? Chase won't put anymore money into United. United appealed to Chase twice this year with Chase declining their requestions. That's why United put up spare parts for collateral. United is done unfortunately. When, who knows!! But Obama won't bail them out because of public opinion and will be satisfied with a breakup with hiring happening from the aquiring airlines. Best of luck!!

 

[G4G5]

You also need to keep reading just a bit deeper into those 'triggers' and follow the money.

Who is UA's largest credit card processor? A: Chase

Who is UA's largest creditor? A: Chase (they participated in the DIP financing during BK and the BK exit financing after)

Who runs UA Mileage Plus CC program? A: Chase

Who is UA's largest single customer? A: Chase (they buy 'miles' in bulk for the cc program)

See a trend yet?

UA may very well go T.U. in the next year, but credit card triggers won't be the culprit. Chase is not going to induce a crisis that unless there is a benefit to Chase and triggering a CC holdback crisis only hurts Chase. Actions are louder than words: Chase has already made advance payments on miles to provide UA cash.

And if encumbered assets of 'only' $1B are an issue, how are Continental or JetBlue ever going to make it with ZERO unencumbered assets?

Obviously the issues are complex and challenging for UA, but simply stating that there is a magic 'bingo' number for BK due to cc issues is a gross oversimplification.

I wouldn't trust Chase to keep UAL afloat. When UAUA exited BK in 2006 they pretty much gave all their assets to JP Morgan as collateral for their loans. Do a google search or read the 10K's
"The loan is secured by substantially all of United's assets, including aircraft, spare parts, rights to international routes and real estate."

If UAL goes TU then Chase gets the Pacific routes.

Chase just like the Star partners has covered it's as, Chase is also the credit that Continental uses for it's FF program.

 

[waveflyer]

Whether you agree with obamas politics- the potus has earned the right to address our kids. If there's something you disagree with, an adult would talk to their kids and explain that it's ok to disagree with authority- republican, democrat, or communist- and explain why you think differently on whatever subject. A great opportunity to show your kids what america is all about.

But that's not what the right is doing. You're throwing a fit about this and villifying Obama. Just like you did on the stimulus, which he inherited. And just like you're doing now with healthcare, a major platform of the Obama campaign. He won the election- dems resoundingly defeated republicans with that platform.

He has absolutely reached out and demanded bi-partisanship in a country where the right only cares about tearing him down. You throw a fit on every issue- villifying him at every turn- never coming up with your own solutions and you expect us to listen to you. Your attempting to pull off 1994 again in a completely different political environment. My generation sees your tactics- and is very turned off. We're also not ex-hippies and could care less about punching bullies in the nose. It's the only way to deal with a bully. And the only way to deal with a child throwing a fit is to put em in timeout.

Go to the corner now- people are dying and there are real problems to solve that the right has ignored for too long

 

[Redtailer]

I think redtailer's synopsis was a little overdramatic, but some of the points I think were OK.

I'm not sure where he got the triggers, unless you read some analyst's opinions and those were his/their guesses. If you listen to the quarterly conference calls, very often reporters will ask the executives about covenants and they won't answer. But somewhere in the 2B area there are probably some triggers where credit card suppliers, for example, will require a larger holdback for future purchases.

There is a reason why the execs would not answer. When the conference call took place the analysts hadn't had a chance to go through the 10-Q thoroughly enough and they only had a chance to glance at the numbers. Anytime execs start eluding questions like that there should be a red flag the size of Texas waving.

Just for the record unless I noted differently, all of the numbers I provided were not made up or are any type of subposition. They came straight from UAL's 2Q 10-Q filing. The numbers are buried but they are there.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Whether you agree with obamas politics- the potus has earned the right to address our kids.

He has absolutely NOT earned any such right. The rights of the government are limited to what the people have given them in the Constitution.

Therein lies the crux of the difference between liberalism and conservatism.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Whether you agree with obamas politics- the potus has earned the right to address our kids.

No way you're (or anyone is)this stupid!
This has to be a joke right?

 

[Paul R. Smith]

If I had a nickel...

 

[Captain X]

yawn, republocrats!

Exactly. It's amazing how much you can see when you're in the middle.

Plus, you get the added bonus of both sides hate you because they can't convince you all the way over to their side. LOL