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UAL to not make it through the Winter???

Wildmanny

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Guys:

I'm NOT trying to stir up a hornet's nest or pi$$ in anyone's Cheerios. Please don't take it that way. I don't want this to happen and am not advocating a position either way.

I'm just wondering if anyone else is hearing this. Yesterday, I had a talk with a bud about consolidation in the industry vis a vis DAL and NWA and the topic turned to UAL and whether they will make it at all. His theory was that they shouldn't and I disagreed simply on a jobs front. We were talking about UAL having to pledge spare parts as collateral for their loan covenants and I thought that definitely didn't sound good. He said that he is hearing that Lufthansa and others are hovering around trying to figure out which parts they want, planes, routes, ops, gates, systems, etc.

So what is the scoop over there? Is there a load factor issue? Is there no money or advance bookings to make through the Winter? Are there rumors of parting out the company?

Just wondering. No flamebait. Best of luck to all the UAL bros and buds that I have over there. This industry is proving to be a mother!

WM
 

St. Nic

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UAL followed by LCC- maybe some kind of amalgamation, but with tight credit these days and junk debt unappetizing on Wall Street I would doubt anyone would pony up cash to save either company. The parts of either company are worth more than the whole. We'll see what happens, but I seriously doubt UAL makes it through the winter. LCC, maybe, maybe not.
 

WayBack

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So you and your friend had a conversation. He has a theory about UAL and now you think it's going to come true?
UAL will not be going anywhere. They will rape and pillage the employees before they shut the place down, and the employees will take it.
 

BeachBummer

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So you and your friend had a conversation. He has a theory about UAL and now you think it's going to come true?
UAL will not be going anywhere. They will rape and pillage the employees before they shut the place down, and the employees will take it.

You can't rape the willing some would argue... It's a bum situation over there. Dreams built and destroyed in one foul swoop.

Good Luck
 

Lampshade

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Chicago based airline with thousands of employees. They will be supported politically and deals will be made to ensure survival, in one form or another.
 
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Jar Jar

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You've got some big-ol' political theory *there*, who knows what *they're* going to do with United. Maybe UAL will be bailed-out to ensure *their* survival.
 

gutshotdraw

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A short time from now in a galaxy far too close:

"I drove my Government Motors clunker to the airport but it broke down halfway there. Caught a taxi the rest of the way. The cap and trade energy surcharge was more than my last paycheck. After a full interrogation of my business and political affiliation (good thing I voted Democrat and signed the petition for President-for-Life Obama) I boarded my Untied Obama Airlines flight but it ran off the runway because of lousy maintenance. There were dozens of cut and bleeding passengers taken to the local hospital but a few bled to death waiting for the Obamacare bureaucrat to sign some paperwork and find a doctor since most of them quit. Guess I'll go back to my cardboard cottage and worship my picture of Big Brother Barry."

HE will save United no matter what. Count on it.
 

ATRCAPT

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A short time from now in a galaxy far too close:

"I drove my Government Motors clunker to the airport but it broke down halfway there. Caught a taxi the rest of the way. The cap and trade energy surcharge was more than my last paycheck. After a full interrogation of my business and political affiliation (good thing I voted Democrat and signed the petition for President-for-Life Obama) I boarded my Untied Obama Airlines flight but it ran off the runway because of lousy maintenance. There were dozens of cut and bleeding passengers taken to the local hospital but a few bled to death waiting for the Obamacare bureaucrat to sign some paperwork and find a doctor since most of them quit. Guess I'll go back to my cardboard cottage and worship my picture of Big Brother Barry."

HE will save United no matter what. Count on it.


That would be hilarious if it wasn't so true...
 

bluechunks

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Y'all forget who's the president...
Good point.

Of course, JetBlue mortgaged all it's spare parts back in 2006 or 2007 so it might not mean much either. The entire industry is a bag of hurt, and UAL's core financial ratios are not not terribly different than the rest of the industry. And surprisingly UAL is even better in some areas.

UAL is clearly the 'poster child' for airline financial mismanagement, but any discussion without including the other suspects (i.e. every other major U.S. airline except SWA) is just whistling in the graveyard.
 
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Lampshade

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You've got some big-ol' political theory *there*, who knows what *they're* going to do with United. Maybe UAL will be bailed-out to ensure *their* survival.

United needs a bailout, but bailed out does not need a hyphen. :p
 

luckytohaveajob

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The government won't even ground 50 SWA planes flying with illegal parts, and you think the government will allow a 90,000 employee company to be scraped?

Welcome to the United Socialist States of America, the USSA where nothing changes except the definition of change.
 

RedDogC130

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Is it true if the company's cash position drops below a certain level then the credit card companies (or someone) can withhold money from them and then it is just a spiral down affect because that just lowers their cash position more and then the bigger amounts can be heldout....a buddy of mine at UA was saying something like this but I was not paying too much attention...now I am a bit confused about what he said....anyone know of such a thing?
 

jmreii

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Is it true if the company's cash position drops below a certain level then the credit card companies (or someone) can withhold money from them and then it is just a spiral down affect because that just lowers their cash position more and then the bigger amounts can be heldout....a buddy of mine at UA was saying something like this but I was not paying too much attention...now I am a bit confused about what he said....anyone know of such a thing?


You have many creditors that will swoop in and close down a business if your cash balance falls below a pre-selected level that the borrower is already aware of before they sign the loan or credit extension. Typical in a business and not with just the airlines with money troubles. The trouble with the airline industry has been a history as a consistent money loser for investors whom are looking to protect themselves in case a business decides to take a powder.
 

Abernathy

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This thread is so naive and so juvenile. "I don't mean to like, piss off anyone with a brain and a comprehension level above the 5th grade, but my buddy, who has a private pilots degree in a Cessna 172, said that United is not going to make it through the winter because 100LL is like $6.00 a gal now and Continental International Airlines serves sandwiches on all of their flights and their airplanes are like really, really clean. I'm super serialll.."

My guess is Obama will have a hard time letting such a giant employer in his home city falter.
 

DonVerita

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A short time from now in a galaxy far too close:

"I drove my Government Motors clunker to the airport but it broke down halfway there. Caught a taxi the rest of the way. The cap and trade energy surcharge was more than my last paycheck. After a full interrogation of my business and political affiliation (good thing I voted Democrat and signed the petition for President-for-Life Obama) I boarded my Untied Obama Airlines flight but it ran off the runway because of lousy maintenance. There were dozens of cut and bleeding passengers taken to the local hospital but a few bled to death waiting for the Obamacare bureaucrat to sign some paperwork and find a doctor since most of them quit. Guess I'll go back to my cardboard cottage and worship my picture of Big Brother Barry."

HE will save United no matter what. Count on it.
You lost the election. Get over it.
 

waveflyer

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You guys just prove how INSANE core republicans have become. Very short memories of life under your king bush. Obama hasn't even talked about UAL or any other airline. Every bailout was directly caused by the deregulation and subsequent raping of corporations- never mind the blatant government interference in employee negotiations. You all need to realize that this country needs labor every bit as much as executives and management. Either gets too much power and the economy will shut down. Everything that you crazy socialist conspiracy theorists blame Obama for was created by disfunctional republican "pro-business" policies. Things will get back in balance and we'll be fine- but don't confuse yourself- you want to blame someone but don't want to blame bush- fine. Go look in te mirror. Executives and businessmen have way more of a sense of entitlement than any worker I've met lately. And being in the airline industry- you ought to feel ashamed for continuing to buy into it.

(ahh... But you're core beliefs don't allow you to feel shame or regret or accept any responsibility at all- so keep blaming Obama for cleaning up the messes you made)
 

RedRum

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Is it true if the company's cash position drops below a certain level then the credit card companies (or someone) can withhold money from them and then it is just a spiral down affect because that just lowers their cash position more and then the bigger amounts can be heldout....a buddy of mine at UA was saying something like this but I was not paying too much attention...now I am a bit confused about what he said....anyone know of such a thing?

I agree with your analysis there.

However, I think the point many on here are trying to make is that the government is going to come up with the loan guarantees that keep the credit card companies off United and other airlines' backs. The trouble with this sort of thinking is that we, as a nation, need to draw the line somewhere. Which airline do we prop up next? Unfortunately, this sort of thinking can only stop when there is either an administration change or the public becomes outraged (much like the health care debate in August)

United was and still can be a great airline. Good luck to everyone over there. The sooner you get those Tilton-types out of there the closer you will be to recovery. It's just too easy for these guys to blame the economy. At some point you have to start running an airline. The well is dry with regard to employee concessions. That dog don't hunt anymore.
 

cjdriver

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They'll get approval to important cheap, foreign labor to lower costs and be competitive. Uno Taco baby!
 
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