Two Pilot Marriages

[81Horse]

Thanks for the link, Rez. That thread predates my time here, so I never would have seen it.

I noticed in the excerpted news article that Jerrie Mock's mother-in-law watched her three kids for her while she was out of the kitchen, flying around the world. Do you feel okay about that?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thanks for the link, Rez. That thread predates my time here, so I never would have seen it.

I noticed in the excerpted news article that Jerrie Mock's mother-in-law watched her three kids for her while she was out of the kitchen, flying around the world. Do you feel okay about that?

No. In fact, that fact that Jerrie had to find a sitter to watch her kids so that she could pave the way for all women pilots to leave thier kids shows the entire paradigm is flawed.

The pride the kids had for thier world record breaking mother is devalued by her absence.....

Besides.. how did Jerrie's husband eat? Good girls stay at home.... they don't go gallivanting around the world....

Rezfully yours....



(WHOA!!! Is Rez serious!!!!!!)

 

[FlyUnited]

So I've read your last few posts and I've come to the conclusion that as long as a girl stays home to cook and clean, then she is a 'good' girl. Otherwise, she is selfish. Guess what? I have never cleaned my house, not once. I never cook either, we go out for dinner. I already know your thoughts on that, so don't bother. I just thought it was more important to spend quality time with my family instead of cleaning and cooking. Do you come home from trips and cook or clean? Why should I?

I also saw that you think female pilots have trouble finding a man because she is always out flying. Wow, what era do you live in? Does that same "can't find a man" theory hold true for the flight attendants too? I must work in some sort of time wharp compared to you because I see many, many happily married pilots and flight attendants. Some are married to people in the industry, some aren't.

 

[FlyUnited]

Forgot to add: I don't cook or clean in the summers either (even though I am home). Do you know why? Because it's boring and I don't want to! I pay someone to do that for me. What part of cleaning piss off the toilet bowl should appeal to any woman? The fact that you want a woman you love to do that says volumes about you.

 

[81Horse]

... The pride the kids had for thier world record breaking mother is devalued by her absence ...

She should have taken the kids with her!

... how did Jerrie's husband eat? ...

But he had his MOMMY staying with him -- he was fine.

Rez, in your world are men total domestic incompetents? Exotic housepets? Would they actually starve if their girls weren't home to feed them?

 

[capt. megadeth]

No. In fact, that fact that Jerrie had to find a sitter to watch her kids so that she could pave the way for all women pilots to leave thier kids shows the entire paradigm is flawed.





(WHOA!!! Is Rez serious!!!!!!)

So I suppose if you are a stay at home mom and you get a babysitter once a month to take a small break from the kids and go out with your friends that is wrong too? I guess if you are a mother, you have to be with your kids 24/7 or they will go out and murder 5 people when they are 30 and it's all the mom's fault. Lighten up man....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I guess we are back at it......

So I've read your last few posts and I've come to the conclusion that as long as a girl stays home to cook and clean, then she is a 'good' girl. Otherwise, she is selfish. Guess what? I have never cleaned my house, not once. I never cook either, we go out for dinner. I already know your thoughts on that, so don't bother. I just thought it was more important to spend quality time with my family instead of cleaning and cooking. Do you come home from trips and cook or clean? Why should I?

Perhaps you should re-read. Are you "hearing" what you want to?

Is your house dirty? Or do you pay someone to clean it? Or does your spouse do that too? (if that is the case, then you got balls! Then I have to ask... what do you do besides whatever you want?) Regardless, you and your spouse are responsible (if I can use that word) to clean your house. Then again I guess you could argue that you don't have to have a clean house.

I just believe that a house should be clean. We don't have the luxury of two incomes, so we can't afford a cleaning service. If you re-read, that is if you choose to, I stated that I come home from 4-5 day trips with 2-3 days off and cook and clean. I give my spouse a break. In addition, I watch the kids so she can go out by herself or with friends to enjoy some personal time, if she so chooses.

You can't cook? I am not surprised. An 'emancipated woman' like you who flies for "feminine freedom" wouldn't be caught dead in the kitchen. That would mean your are suffering and oppressed.

I love the commerical for Boston Market. The woman says "how do I keep my kitchen so clean?" (the viewer thinks this is about a cleaning product). The women then states.. "I use Boston Market." How pathetic. We have evolved into a time deficient society. Many commercials sell products and services that "make time" for our busy and hectic lives. But if our current culture is righteous why don't we have enough time in the day?

Of course you go out to eat. Who wants to come home after 'Liberating the Skies from Evil Patriarchs' and cook dinner only to clean up. No.. you go out to eat, justifying it as 'quality time'. Did it ever occur to you that making dinner together, eating dinner together and and cleaning up together as a family is also quality time? You are so programmed it is pathetic. Does free will ever occur in your mind? You've latched on to a social paradigm and refuse to let go. You can't even cook a meal without feeling threatened!

In addition, why teach your kids demeaning and insulting skills such as cooking and cleaning. That is below your Upper Middle Class Royalty entitlement for you and your clan.

Finally, eating out often or in your case, all the time isn't healthy. Restaruant food is good, but it is loaded with calories, sodium and fat. I doubt you're overweight but that doesn't mean you are healthy. Part of cooking is knowing you made it and it is healthy. Do you even have a kitchen? If so why? Why not gut your kitchen and make a more useful room?

I also saw that you think female pilots have trouble finding a man because she is always out flying. Wow, what era do you live in? Does that same "can't find a man" theory hold true for the flight attendants too? I must work in some sort of time wharp compared to you because I see many, many happily married pilots and flight attendants. Some are married to people in the industry, some aren't.

I see a mix of happily married pilot couples. I agreed with rdy4to and mega that they had good points.... But you are into selective reading... Let's expand it a bit.. I don't think crew couples work well with kids. It certianly isn't fair to kids. So throw FA's into the discussion.

I am the evil-doer that thinks 'emancipated women' like you that have freed yourself from the bondage of raising children and keeping a house all so you can 'prove' that you are equal by working and generating a descretionary second income. However, in your case, since you don't cook or clean (meaning you have no domestic work value) you have to work to pay someone else to do it....

Question.. what would you do if, for whatever reason, you couldn't work?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Forgot to add: I don't cook or clean in the summers either (even though I am home). Do you know why? Because it's boring and I don't want to! I pay someone to do that for me. What part of cleaning piss off the toilet bowl should appeal to any woman? The fact that you want a woman you love to do that says volumes about you.

Cleaning too demeaning for you... of course it is Princess. My spouse and I trade off cleaning the toilet bowl. I already believe that you think my wife is a mindless, oppressed servant, but this confirms it. What do you think of me, an airline pilot, for cleaning my own toilet bowl? Is it righteous payback for 3000+ years of oppressing women? The reason we clean our own toilets is becuase we are frugal and not too proud.

You are even too good to clean up after yourself. So how does your toilet get clean? Oh.. you pay another woman to do it. So, cleaning it is beneath you but you expect another woman to do it. You are a classic feminist. You aren't intrested in womens rights..just your 'rights'. You demand your entitlements. You'd probably be giddy with joy if you got a man to clean your toilet.

I can only imagine how you treat the aircraft cleaners at work.... I believe in egalitarianism.... you just think you are better than everyone...

 

[FlyUnited]

Yes, I am UNABLE to clean. As you stated, I have "no domestic work value". I won't fight that point, it's true. But I do have a live-in housekeeper who takes care of that for me. When I was young, my parents also had a live-in housekeeper, so it's never been something I've ever considered doing. I'm sorry if that is wrong to you. My mother never worked a day in her life, but she never cleaned or cooked either. Now where would she fit in to your perfect little world? I would probably poison my family by accident if I even attempted to cook, so I don't. No one taught me how and the closest I ever got to preparing a meal was in boarding school when they made the mistake of giving me kitchen duty one semester. And just to be clear, I would have lost my mind if my life consisted of dinner parties like my mom's life was.

Why does a woman working seem so threatening to you? Does my mom's lack of cleaning and cooking expertise insult you too? And if it does, why is that? My father was quite proud that she didn't work and would probably have been insulted if he ever saw her having to stoop to that level.

To be clear, my husband and I do have defined "his" or "her" projects. His projects include buying me flowers and rubbing my shoulders while we watch TV. I have some special "her" things I do for him that keep him pretty content too. Our relationship, family life, and lifestyle fits us perfectly. And to quote you, I bet your wife will never lay on her deathbed and wish she had spent more time cleaning the family toilet. Perhaps she will wish she had spent more time enjoying her life.

As I have stated in earlier threads, I think raising a child is more about the attention, love and their responsibility to society than their watching their mother scrub the floors when her intellectual ability is much higher. To me, that is called a martyr.

As they say, we only have one life. I have no intention of spending it cleaning up after people.

 

[FlyUnited]

If a woman is forced because of financial difficulties to clean either her or another person's home, that is a completely different story. Would you berate a poor woman who must clean others homes because of financial destitution as being selfish too?

This routine could go on for another 11 pages and neither of us will ever change our position. I believe that only people without the means to afford live-in help should be forced into domestic servitude. Therefore, I think any man who expects his wife to stay home (unless she wants that too......and some do) to clean and cook while the rest of the family gets to enjoy their lives, is a selfish individual.

 

[capt. megadeth]

You'd probably be giddy with joy if you got a man to clean your toilet.

I'd be giddy if I got a man to clean my toilet....but he better be in a thong with a nice arse.

If it ain't tight it ain't right.

He he

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, I am UNABLE to clean. As you stated, I have "no domestic work value". I won't fight that point, it's true. But I do have a live-in housekeeper who takes care of that for me. When I was young, my parents also had a live-in housekeeper, so it's never been something I've ever considered doing. I'm sorry if that is wrong to you. My mother never worked a day in her life, but she never cleaned or cooked either. Now where would she fit in to your perfect little world? I would probably poison my family by accident if I even attempted to cook, so I don't. No one taught me how and the closest I ever got to preparing a meal was in boarding school when they made the mistake of giving me kitchen duty one semester. And just to be clear, I would have lost my mind if my life consisted of dinner parties like my mom's life was.

Sounds like your Mom was a socialite. Did she volunteer to the community or a charitable organization? what did she do with her life? And you never answered my question concerning what you would do if you could not work.

Live in housekeeper? You and I are so far apart. My family is blue collar baby. Not all of my generation has gone to college.

Boarding school? You keep getting better and better. more privileged than ever..

Why does a woman working seem so threatening to you? Does my mom's lack of cleaning and cooking expertise insult you too? And if it does, why is that? My father was quite proud that she didn't work and would probably have been insulted if he ever saw her having to stoop to that level.

Insulted by what?

A working woman doesn't threaten me. I think if a women wants to work she should. Women in the workplace increase diverity and that's good.

However, if a two income couple makes decrestionary income and has kids then shame on them. When declaring your rights, don't forget your responsibilities.

To be clear, my husband and I do have defined "his" or "her" projects. His projects include buying me flowers and rubbing my shoulders while we watch TV. I have some special "her" things I do for him that keep him pretty content too. Our relationship, family life, and lifestyle fits us perfectly. And to quote you, I bet your wife will never lay on her deathbed and wish she had spent more time cleaning the family toilet. Perhaps she will wish she had spent more time enjoying her life.

If my wife passes away at least she will know the toilet is clean and she was humble enough to do it or she was married to someone who was. She is character based.. not privileged or culture based..

As I have stated in earlier threads, I think raising a child is more about the attention, love and their responsibility to society than their watching their mother scrub the floors when her intellectual ability is much higher. To me, that is called a martyr.

Actually I think children should be scrubbing the floors so mom can have a break.

But that is just it. You think my non college educated toilet cleaning wife is nothing but a mindless servant. You fit the profile of Cinderella's wicked step mother...

As they say, we only have one life. I have no intention of spending it cleaning up after people.

Not even after yourself...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If a woman is forced because of financial difficulties to clean either her or another person's home, that is a completely different story. Would you berate a poor woman who must clean others homes because of financial destitution as being selfish too?

Nope... I think the woman that cleans your toilet has more character and work ethic than you. but we aren't talking about that.. stay on the issue.

This routine could go on for another 11 pages and neither of us will ever change our position. I believe that only people without the means to afford live-in help should be forced into domestic servitude. Therefore, I think any man who expects his wife to stay home (unless she wants that too......and some do) to clean and cook while the rest of the family gets to enjoy their lives, is a selfish individual.

My wife and I can't afford live in help.... but we don't view ourselves as being forced into domestic servitude. We call it discharging our responsbilties and being self reliant...

You really do think cooking and cleaning is beneath you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'd be giddy if I got a man to clean my toilet....but he better be in a thong with a nice arse.

If it ain't tight it ain't right.

He he

Now we are talking!!!

 

[FlyUnited]

If I were to lose my job, YES, I would take care of my family and myself. I am not beneath cleaning up but I am above someone thinking so little of me that I would be forced to do it. Do people WANT to clean crap up? ewww

I give 100% of my salary to charity. My husband supports us. We know we were very lucky in the lottery gene pool but we have always given away our salaries to others. My children have never had a traditional family Thanksgiving in their lives, nor have I. As soon as the children could walk, they served Thanksgiving dinner at the homeless shelter. Before that, they sat in a stroller as I served the dinner. Now, even as they have grown up, it is our family tradition to always serve Thanksgiving there. It is something we cherish and look forward to.

You seem to miss what I'm saying, or more possibly I have misrepresented myself, I do NOT clean or cook.....because I don't want to nor do I have the least amount of talent to do so. I give away my time and money. That's what I do. I choose as wisely as possible and I always volunteer first to get a feel for the organization. I have fundraisers which also raise money to the organizations I deem worthy. And because I'm a so called 'feminist', most go to single, needy woman. Luckily I gave birth to two boys that now follow in my footsteps and respect the women they date. Amazingly (not really), all the girls they date seem to be on career paths too....much better than anything I've ever done.

My father was a republican that was raised in a home of boys...I guess he had no idea what to do when his 4th little kid popped out and she was a girl. So he raised me to believe that the world was mine for the taking...so I did. (I would guess your Dad did that for you too....did he do that for your sisters?)

We are different people. If you really help your wife 50/50 (or as much as could be expected from someone who works), then I applaud you and apologize for my mistake.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Best of luck to you.

And you... I'm sure we have more in common than not....

 

[rdy4to]

Okay, seriously, the minute I can afford to have someone else clean my toilet I'm going to do it. If you're going to clean a toilet you might as well get paid to do it. And if it's not me then more power to me.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

rdy4to, flyunited and mega..

All bets are off..... These mom fighter pilots (message boards) have got you beat... they are better, faster, higher and mommier....

http://www.fighterchicks.com/

 

[rdy4to]

rdy4to, flyunited and mega..

All bets are off..... These mom fighter pilots (message boards) have got you beat... they are better, faster, higher and mommier....

http://www.fighterchicks.com/

Does it count if I dated a F16 pilot and got to sit in the plane? :laugh:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Does it count if I dated a F16 pilot and got to sit in the plane? :laugh:

Depends, was the seat occupied, and was it armed? imp:

 

[Standby 1]

All I am am advocating is one parent (mom or dad) stay at home with the kids. Shocking, I know, in our current culture... How dare I put kids before discretionary or second income, status jobs, and cultural identity.

I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are advocating. In our household, one parent is home with the kidlet. Most days that is me, but around 10 days each month I toddle off and work a daytrip and the person who stays with the kidlet on those days is his father. Wow...we must be AWFUL parents and I'm sure my child feels unloved and abandoned because one parent is with him at all times. I really should quit my flying job that gives me 20+ days off each month and get a 9-5 job and set up daycare for him. Gee...I was just going over my schedule for next month and realized it's worse than I thought ----- 26 days off (it's a vacation month for me) and 96 hrs of pay so I can afford to take the kidlet to visit Disneyworld. He's growing up miserable, isn't he?

 

[p.b.]

The arguments in this thread are so tedious!

A two pilot marriage isn't one where you can drop as many trips as you want or work a job with 10 day-trips a month. That's called a part time job.

For most of my career four 4days a month has been standard. If two pilots are working 15 to 16 days a month, either they will be away from home at the same time or they will never see one another.

It's nice to know there are still a few legacy jobs out there...I don't believe it's commonplace to have the flexibility you girls are commanding at your jobs. If I remember right, the person who started this thread was relatively low time, so I guess the advice to he or she would be to make sure you find a senior spouse so they can pick and choose their schedules.

 

[Standby 1]

The arguments in this thread are so tedious!

A two pilot marriage isn't one where you can drop as many trips as you want or work a job with 10 day-trips a month. That's called a part time job.

For most of my career four 4days a month has been standard. If two pilots are working 15 to 16 days a month, either they will be away from home at the same time or they will never see one another.

It's nice to know there are still a few legacy jobs out there...I don't believe it's commonplace to have the flexibility you girls are commanding at your jobs. If I remember right, the person who started this thread was relatively low time, so I guess the advice to he or she would be to make sure you find a senior spouse so they can pick and choose their schedules.

Actually, what is tedious is those people, who despite direct evidence to the contrary, continue to believe that a two pilot marriage with children (or not, take your pick) is not possible. I've referred a few of our married-pilot friends to this thread and we've all gotten a big laugh out of it since all of us are in long-term, two-pilot, with kids marriages and are living lives contrary to the descriptions of all these nay-sayers.

Now, as to legacy jobs....I just had to laugh at that one! I am a 2.5 year fo at a regional carrier who holds 18-21 days off each month WITHOUT dropping any trips (therefore, flying an average of 75 - 80 hrs each month). According to any airline out there, 75-80 hrs is considered full time. Now, my pay may seem part time-ish because it is, after all, a regional carrier, ha ha ha.

Is all this going to fall into a person's lap? Heck no. Sacrifices by both spouses are necessary. My latest sacrifice? I by-passed upgrade so that I could continue to keep the kind of schedule I have to spend time with my family. Doing that was a very big deal to me ---- everyone wants to upgrade, make more money, etc, etc. But it would have meant going back on reserve and my kid and husband are way, way, way more important to me than wearing 4 stripes.

 

[eddie]

I'm certainly not one to say that a two pilot marriage can't work, I've been in one for quite some time. I just don't believe it's in children's best interest to be raised by two parents that are out of town for 15 days each a month.

I'm glad to hear that there are great regional jobs out there. I never found that job.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I just don't believe it's in children's best interest to be raised by two parents that are out of town for 15 days each a month.

.

And the beauty in our life is that we all have our own beliefs. You have your beliefs and live by them and I have mine. The reason I don't have kids right now is because I am truly concerned with being around when I do have them. That means waiting until my fiancee and I have enough seniority so that at least one of us is around at all times. Maybe we won't see eachother alot in order to be with the kids, maybe it will work out that we will see eachother quite a bit as well. In either case, it is OUR choice and our love is strong enough to make that sacrifice for our future children. If you can't make that sacrifice then no, you should not have kids. I do believe it is good if at least one parent is around at all times but I also believe that it can be done with 2 pilot couples.

 

[eddie]

I guess everyone is in agreement then.

 

[FlyUnited]

Well, gee Beaver. Me and the hubby decided (even though we have finished raising our kids ) that it is more important for me to stay home just in case my kids decide to be parents so that I can stay home and build playdo sculptures with them. We decided that I have NO worth, so I should sacrifice for the betterment of others. It stinks that I am only 45 and have nothing left in my life except shopping and babysitting, but heck, it's 9/11/06....we need to think like the Arabs and put women in their place. Nuf said.

******Do any of the other 'girls' here know where I can purchase a head covering or a chastity belt?*********

 

[p.b.]

flyunited, I'm sad for you that you rate your worth by what job you hold.

I hope you weren't too offended by my terminology, that's just what I call myself and other females.

 

[FlyUnited]

No, not by the job I do but certainly not by doing something I find terribly boring (hanging around with kids) just so I will make other people happy.

As I stated before, some people really want to stay home and I believe that in a situation like that, the children will do exceptionally well. The problem lies when a person is forced to do something they do not want, something as important as raising a child, that can cause bad consequences.

Guys, my advice, if you want a stay home mom for your future children then only date the ladies who want that for themselves. It will make everyone involved much happier. As for me, I'd rather pull my fingernails off, one by one, than be a fulltime stayhome mom.

Well I'm off to Europe with my personal pilot/best friend for a funfilled layover (and no kids). See you soon.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As I stated before, some people really want to stay home and I believe that in a situation like that, the children will do exceptionally well. The problem lies when a person is forced to do something they do not want, something as important as raising a child, that can cause bad consequences.

How about the kids that are forced to have a Mom that doesn't want them...

Parents choose thier kids but the kids don't choose thier parents...