TWA Flt 800

[Mamma]

A SAM kills with a huge shotgun blast of shrapnel, what's left of the target looks like swiss cheese.

No shrapnel holes in TWA 800.

That's not the case with a man pad.

 

[Jim]

That's not the case with a man pad.

It was outside the envelope for a manpad and manpads go for heat (engines).

 

[trip]

The one that DHL was "outside the envelope" also.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The question really is how do you best hide something this public?

Right out in the open has always been the most effective. Every theory brought forward will be immediately ridiculed or squashed publicly except the dubious cover story about a supposed self-ignition of vapors in a center fuel tank. It starts sounding plausible enough upon spurious examination and soon enough, after a coordinated media circus, most folks will go along with it and dutifully begin to ape all on their own the same discrediting tactics as they have heard repeated over and over again in the media.

Putting all that aside, the official NTSB explanation does not stand up well when examined more closely, so it is a good thing that someone has enough spine to reopen this thing and see where the clues lead this time.

I don't need tin foil or spam to realize that things in this instance may not be as they were made to appear, no matter how many may be emotionally invested in the prevailing spin.

The technique you reference is known as "gaslighting" and is deployed more often than most people realize. Get people to start questioning their own recollection of events or their own judgement and they are far easier to manipulate.

 

[glasspilot1]

It was outside the envelope for a manpad and manpads go for heat (engines).

Reaching way back in my memory I thought there were some manpads that could make it to 13,000+ feet. And the center of 4 JT9's is about where the center fuel tank is.

 

[NEDude]

The history of the United States government is typically exaggerating events or falsifying evidence as a case for war. Several examples come to mind, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, WMDs in Iraq are few of the more note able ones. The conspiracy theories involving Sept. 11 all involve the government playing a role in order to justify war. This conspiracy theory goes just the opposite of all of the known and fictional conspiracy theories out there - that the government covered up an attack in order to prevent a war. That alone makes me very skeptical.

 

[OHGOON]

The history of the United States government is typically exaggerating events or falsifying evidence as a case for war. Several examples come to mind, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, WMDs in Iraq are few of the more note able ones. The conspiracy theories involving Sept. 11 all involve the government playing a role in order to justify war. This conspiracy theory goes just the opposite of all of the known and fictional conspiracy theories out there - that the government covered up an attack in order to prevent a war. That alone makes me very skeptical.

Unless this one has all to do with "friendly" fire.

 

[atpcliff]

There have been four KC-135s that blew up, including the last one out of Bishkek, I believe. The AF did not know what happened in the 1st 3. They thought it was the center fuel tank explosion, but they did not have definitive evidence.

cliff
GRB

 

[Jim]

Reaching way back in my memory I thought there were some manpads that could make it to 13,000+ feet. And the center of 4 JT9's is about where the center fuel tank is.

Nope, at least not in 1996. I don't know about now. It would have gone for the hottest spot/hottest engine, not the center of a heat mass.

 

[JCJ]

There is absolutely no way our government pulled this off and kept it quiet either then or now. No way. My favorite theory is that a missile from a US Navy destroyer shot it down. Really? A boat filled with 300 kids shot that thing down and not one... not one of those 17-25 year old sailors said a word about it. Give me a break. That news would have hit the pier before the first line was cast ashore.

No way any patriot working for the CIA, FBI, NSA, or other spy agency would pull the trigger on that mission. A mission such as this would need several people "in the know" and I don't believe for a second that there are half a dozen sworn agents that would do such a thing against their country and innocent citizens. No way they were tricked into doing it by some political appointee either cause if that were to happen to me try stopping me from speaking to every news outlet in the country to tell the real story.

No way the government paid some 3rd world operative to do it either cause: 1) Employees in one of the above agencies would have had to work that deal and; 2) that 3rd world dirtbag would have gone public with it in order to get his martyr lifetime membership card.

Crap happens. May they all rest in peace.

^this

 

[JCJ]

We're talking about killing hundreds of American civilians here- not designing the SR-71 or F-117. No American serviceman would knowingly (or not) take part in this and not go public with it. Perhaps I am naive in thinking that.

Agree. Especially in the era of Manning and Snowden who see it as their duty to go public with government secrets. No way something like this could have been kept under wraps for so long.

Although I think there is lots of room for doubt in the NTSB findings, I just don't buy an intentional shoot-down.

 

[JimNtexas]

That's not the case with a man pad.

1) You're mistaken. Most manpads need to hit or at least come very close to their target, but they do use fragmentation as a kill mechanism. And of course they leave big parts of themselves in the wreckage.

2) TWA 800 was too high for a manpad.

3) No missile components were found in the wreckage.

No missile can kill an airplane and leave no trace.

There have been a few instances of civil airplanes being hit by inadvertent missile fire. The best example was Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, which was accidently shot down by an Ukrainian SA-5 (aka S-200) missile.

In that case the aircraft skin was peppered with holes and missile components were found embedded in the wreckage.

And of course the whole notion that an inadvertent missile firing could be kept a secret by the thousands of people who would know about it beyond ridiculous. Not only would an entire ship's crew, from the captain to the laundry tech would have to stay silent for decades, the FBI (who inventoried all the missiles in the darn Navy), the Navy supply system, and the entire NTSB would be in on the conspiracy. Only an idiot, or Alex Jones would believe that.

 

[waveflyer]

I thought everyone DOES know it was shot down. The govt is just sticking to its story

I tried to google

Does anyone in the govt have a response to the documentary

 

[Jim]

Does anyone in the govt have a response to the documentary

Why should the government respond? A response just adds more fuel to the fire.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah, well... Your argument against it being shot down gets weaker by the post

Let me explain- the argument you use works against itself

You're basically saying its too big a secret, it couldn't be kept, right?

Yet here we are. Most of us about as far away from this 'op gone bad' or whatever it was- as could be- and yet we at least doubt this investigation-

And a lot of us think it could be possible that it was accidentally shot down-

So...you can't say it couldn't be true bc the govt couldn't keep the secret, if pretty much nobody believes the spontaneous fuel tank conclusion, and a good % of rational people believe what is supposed to be kept secret, might've happened.

Iow: the secret HASN'T been kept(!)

So you just have to come up with another argument.

I would think that since investigators involved are saying their conclusions were manipulated-

Good lord yes- the govt has every responsibility to respond(!)

Who are you that you'd think they wouldn't? If their findings aren't transparent and aren't conclusive and open for everyone independent who has a mind to, to come to the same conclusion- it doesn't need to have been shot down in order for the people to demand a better result out of our investigation.

That's a very rational thing to expect.

One does not need to be a conspiracy theorist to demand satisfactory conclusions that can be duplicated by any scientist

And most of us believe that this accident investigation smells-