TSA Lounge is down!

[Shrek]

Just wait and see guys..........that is all we truly know for now.

It will be nice to chat to some of those "other pilots" when we get re-integrated.

 

[smokey999]

I don't care if I am wearing a G0JETS badge, as long as we are all one list.

 

[wjpilot]

Your MEC didnt sell you out? When was the last time you got to vote on an issue and it passed? After this extension it will be what 10 years since the pilot group voted on a contract.

Nice, if the pilots wont vote the way the company wants, the MEC will do it anyway. Who is paying who? Think about it.

 

[airjackson]

I am not sure of that, but how much worse can it get? Extension after extension? NEVER voting on a contract and then after rejecting a shoot!y offer, being faced with mec ratification of essentially the same offer. That scenario has been played out how many times, over the past 10-15 years?

Our leaders get terminated, one by one, and alpa national does NOTHING. TSH engages in union busting and alpa national does not care. They only want us to ratify any deal, to add several hundred more pilots to the list and grow their dues. THEY CARE ABOUT NOTHING ELSE. ALPA's interest is not ours. We must decertify and move on. ALPA is a total and complete failure and guilty of breach of trust.

And don't tell me we won't have access to those wonderful RESOURCES of ALPA. They haven't meant anything to us, they have not improved our lot one iota. US airways mec didn't even know about scabjet. Give me a fuc!ing break. ALPA is a failure and must be cast aside. Time for new leadership and a new beginning.

You still offer no reasonable alternative to ALPA. I agree that ALPA is not always perfect in representing any carrier. ALPA is a national organization, representing many different groups. Their priorities will not always exactly match ours. Once we accept that, understand that, I still think that ALPA best represents our interests.

As far as voting on issues and contracts, the pilots did vote on the last contract proposal from management. It was soundly defeated. Now, I would offer you that the conditions we find ourselves in have changed significantly since that vote took place. Two more major carriers in bankruptcy along with their associated regional carriers. Concessionary demands from managements. There are NO good alternatives here. Only bad ones. So we need to choose how bad it is going to be. The duty of the MEC is to represent the interests of this pilot group in the best way it sees fit. If that means signing an LOA without a pilot vote, I will support that. -Remember, we voted the MEC into office to do that very thing. I do not expect to have to vote on every single issue that is brought before the MEC. That's what I elected them to do.

I will not get into a character debate about each and every member of our MEC. I couldn't change minds here if I spent all day at this friggin computer. I will simply state that I have spent time with them in furthering this union. I have seen them at work and know that they have the best interests of this pilot group in mind. Will they make every pilot happy all the time? No.

And to those unhappy with this issue or any issue facing TSA,I ask you this. Were YOU there at the picketing events? have you volunteered any time to this union? Have you even bothered to call the MEC officials and talk to them about these issues one on one?

One last item; to all of you who voted "no" on management's last proposal (75% of you). If you never showed up to picket at the subsequent events, you may as well have voted "yes".

 

[redbook]

air,

alpa has failed. We cannot accept representation that doesn't represent us. If you want to donate to the cause of alpa, that is fine. I want my dues to IMPROVE our life at tsa. It has not. Our MEC has our best interests at heart, no doubt. I don't think anybody other than management and the opportunists at scumbag jet has questioned that. Their character and conduct has been beyond reproach. I question the results and tactics. Why ratify something the pilots have rejected? You seem quick to say things are so so much worse in the last few months. More airlines in bankruptcy etc...these were all known issues and doesn't change the fact that TSH MAKES A LOT OF FUC!ING MONEY!!!! Stop being HK's bitch and demand what you deserve.

 

[airjackson]

I can asure you I am nobody's bitch, thank you very much. Nor am I a blind follower of ANY union official or ALPA Natl. I have made my concerns about ALPA Natl known to our MEC. I haven't always agreed on the tactics we've used and have said so to those responsible. I personally would have favored more determined picketing, as that seemed to get the company's attention. Apparently, however, the majority of the pilot group thought otherwise as the DISMAL attendance demonstrated.

So we are left with what options? Please enlighten me as to what this group should do. I am a realist and see a quickly changing landscape for the piloting profession. I am still waiting to hear who would do a better job of representing the interests of the TSA pilots, if not ALPA.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Has anyone seen "Office Space" lately..................?

 

[millhouse21]

You know, the problem with tactics can perhaps also be blamed on National. Ever time somebody suggested a different course of action it was never undertaken because "national wouldn't like it." No full page ads in newspapers, no hiring our own lawyer, no national hiring ban. ALPA wanted to stick to their old play book while trying to "keep from antagonizing" them. What they didn't realise is that it would be impossible to further antagonize the company. They already hate our guts and the only way to get their attention is through their wallets. Well, I'm ready.

 

[temcgrew]

the J41 crews will be getting displaced to the CRJ 700 sometime soon.

What, no more sitting and freezing this winter. I'm all for it!!!

 

[Tarzan]

It will be nice to chat to some of those "other pilots" when we get re-integrated.

Yup, it will be a real short chat.

The only thing I what to know is how those street CA enjoy being on reserve for the next 4 fours. Theres a bunch of FO's here that will have them there for a long time.

 

[redbook]

I am still waiting to hear who would do a better job of representing the interests of the TSA pilots, if not ALPA.

How about tsa pilots? actually VOTING and calling our own shots and not blaming some "national" boogeyman.

tsa lounge down for mx? I think we can all count that as one lie we are being told. Why is that acceptable? Who is so afraid of tsa pilots voice? Its the same playbook and I am sick of it. IT DOESN'T WORK. It goes quiet and then we get hosed. The party line will be "We will get them next time, this was the best we could do."

So tell me again why we can't get rid of alpa? How things are so bad everywhere else that we should just cave and accept whatever management proposes? We make money and a lot of it. Period. We have growth opportunities and everyone at this airline is accepting that we should drag everyone else down and say "it was _____ fault"

I answered your question. Now tell me, how bad does it have to get, extension after extension, mec ratification after mec ratification before you accept we need a new direction?

 

[Skippy]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, (and the occaisonally lady)

First off the remember when Dario held the roadshows-- he explained the repercussions of our vote outcomes. I was there for at least 2 STL ones. He stated and i quote, If the proposal doesnt pass, the MEC and he will work diligently to attempt a better offer-- he never promised! He said it is possible and will try. So when we voted "NO" on the whole proposal-- back before national basically abandoned us and negotiatied TSA in a corner and creating an only way out scenario-- if a proposal that is better than the 4 year deal, he kept his word, albeit- we dont have to like it but he and the MEC did what they said they could. Now, i understand people's frustration- i talk to many of you- but when I say we have no other option and we've exhausted all avenues- we have-- we dont like the deal any more than any of you, but and this is going to sound like a broken record-- 1. we're doing the best we can with what we have, 2. when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.
3. sometimes you have to play the hand your delt. and all the classic cliches fit in this scenario.

Just remember-- negotiations is about leverage, and right now and even in 2 years, we really dont see ourselves as having much--- so we keep what we have(except the 1.5%) get scope ( as good as it can be) put up with it for an extension, make the company stable, profitable, and poised for growth, and most importantly create and maintain employment and advancement.
It's hard to agree with me i know, but we've weighed all other options and this is our best option right now-- we need to take and accept it, and live to fight another day. I really hope i dont need to explain what would happen should we enter contract negotiations--- here's a few tactics--- industry still in poor condition-- company could actually make us take concessions, and of course the worse scenario-- they begin to move A/C to ************************* certificate-- the threat is there and it is real--- and i dont think we want to test the waters-- i mean they started a whole other airline right? Got it up an running quicker than any other regional in the country in the history of certificates-- the would just use those whipsaw tactics to get even deeper cuts--- it's not speculation, it's just reality. Don't think for one minute, it's the MEC's fault, you can totally blame the company for trying to railroad us thru NATIONAL and negotiating behind our backs--- I tried to paint the real picture and threat to those blaming and bashing the MEC. Just remember in the end-- when you get a chance to bid the 70 or 90 seater, upgrade, transition etc.... im sure you will be the first to say "thank you", right? Now, if none of that happens then you may say your opinion, but you'll just have to trust the MEC to do the right thing and be patient and let things develop.
If you have any questions or i can be of any assistance, feel free to email me or use the board.

AJ AKA SKIPPY and im the OG (original gangsta) but there will always be OG'S ( original G0Jetters)

 

[Skippy]

Why cant we get rid of ALPA?

Well it costs money. Alot of freaking money. You see ALPA, may not provide us with much, but they usually always come thru with the $$$$$.

We actually use more $$$ than we generate for them-- so to say they are in it for the money is at best a joke. Alpa provides the means, we provide the know how.

Just TSA Cpts probably only grenerate about $400k a year-- i dont even need to tell you how quickly we would go thru that-- not to mention how much we'd need for a lawyer-- we'd have to find one that worked pro bono until we could even afford it-- can you even estimate what a retainer would be? Where would we get that kind of $$$?

Just remember our job as union officials is primarily representaion, contract compliance ( and Kagan does an excellent job- so well they wrongfully terminated him for it) preserving employment and maintaining quality of life--
Things that are extremely difficult in the current airline atmosphere.

Please dont take my posts as me liking what im saying, because i dont, but it's all we have, so we better make do.

SKIPPY telling like it is since 1978

 

[Skippy]

Also in response to the whole why dont the pilots get to vote statement--- they did vote-- soemthing Dario promised would happen and 75% voted no-- so ok since then the environment has changed, national has changed, other things have changed, so if we can make a deal with what we have we better-- not to mention the deal only needs to get another 26% of the votes---We need to escape the whole vote no mentality just b/c we hate the company-- we need to change our perspective and secure possible future flying with SCOPE while maintaing our employment and not taking MAJOR concessions. We've always been avg and this is really no different.

SKIPPY

 

[redbook]

-We need to escape the whole vote no mentality just b/c we hate the company-- SKIPPY

Ok, so this is just one snippet of your post but I couldn't resist. I voted no, and it was not just an FU to the company. I made the decision based on the fact that I wanted to improve my lot in life, after years of having improved the profitablilty of the company. And you say we should slog on for more years and get nothing?

I really don't believe that you believe all of what you posted. But if you do believe it; well when my fellow tsa pilots start believing the nonsense that we need to keep suffering and adding money to HK's huge bankroll, then the pilot group will have no one to blame but themselves.

We should still vote. Otherwise time for the MEC to go.

 

[Capn Lucky]

Please allow me to echo what dear Cpt skippy said. I've often heard the phrase that you are only worth what you negotiate. It ssounds good to me. That said, the empirical value of an experienced pilot has gone down in a big way again this year. Northwest and Delta are on the bubble and many more layoffs are ahead. In short, as Skippy said, our leverage is diminished accordingly. In a perfect world, we should vote. In this case, I'm going to put a little trust in our MEC to get the job done. We are not in a position to dictate any terms here, regardless of what we would like to believe. Lets keep our eyes on the bigger picture and come back to fight another day. This way, that day will come.

BTW, I don't always agree with the MEC, but if we want to dissent, we should do it on the ALPA board.

 

[airjackson]

Red, You believe that an in-house union would be a better route to go and I respect that. We will simply have to disagree.

You voted "no" on the last proposal. Now be honest. Did you show up to walk the picket line?

Tsa lounge down for mx? You are right, that isn't quite the truth. No one is suggesting it is. Ideally, it would say "TSALOUNGE is currently down so that real people can speak in real voices about real important issues."

 

[redbook]

Fair enough Air J

I was there and in 2000 as well. Why? I don't know anymore. I thought it was to strengthen our position, not to be an opening to surrender and capitulation. I still believe tsa pilots deserve better, we work for a profitable company and deserve to share in its success. If the prevailing attitude is that we have to "protect what we have", then I may be in the minority and I will accept the outcome.

 

[great cornholio]

As much as I hate to say it I don't really think that most TSA pilots have an idea of how bad it is going to be at TSA this summer. We have already lost 7 planes in the past 2 months that have not been replaced with jets. By the end of the summer all of the 41s are going to be gone so that will be another 8 planes gone and replaced by nothing. The best outcome of this will be stagnation for years the worst of course would be a furlough. Contract negotionations with this whole GJ issue in place will be a mess. Hulas will whipsaw us left and right. I have no idea what the MEC has in the proposal, but I hear that it is marginally better than what was offered to us a few months ago. I've also heard that its in Hulas' best interst to get this thing settled because of apparent code share offers from Delta and NWA, however neither of those two code shares will start until the labor dispute is over. I really don't like the idea of giving up stuff when Hulas is making mad money. There was an article I read that said that TSA made 405 million in revenue in 2005. And that something like 45 million of that went straight to Hulas' pocket. The same article also said that GJ's expects to make over 85 million IN PROFIT in 2006. So as a pilot group I feel that we should NOT give up ANYTHING to get the GJ flying. However I do trust that the MEC is looking out for the best intrest of the pilot group as thats what they were voted in to do and we can just as easily vote them out if we need to.

 

[pilot05]

I’m behind the MEC. Given the future rj market, and current situation.

Nothing in life is free. In my humble view, we are buying the flying, a bit more job security (hopefully) and the possibility of ending this crap. Long term, it looks like the cost makes sense.