TSA Lounge is down!

[millhouse21]

As usual, when something significant is going on TSA Lounge is down. Somebody clearly doesn't want us discussing this apparent Blowjet settlement there so let's talk about it here. Any waterskiers out there? What do you think?

I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. If I had the previous vote to do over again, I would still vote no because it was and remains a remarkably bad deal. I would be opposed to any deal without regard to the length of the extension that contained the type of purposely vague language that one did. However, I'm pretty sure that a new proposal would be passed by the pilot group if they sweetened the deal just a little bit. If that's true what do you think of the MEC approving the deal without a vote? It's clearly what both the company and ALPA National want. If it did get signed into being that way, I would be both disappointed and relieved that the whole nightmare was over. What does everybody else think?

P.S. All those Blowjet fuckers can still kiss my ass. You are the scum of the earth.

P.P.S. Why can't we have the dignity of some software that merely Xes out the naughty words. Changing fucker to fricker is really weak. I mean, you're not hiding the intent of the sentiment so who are we fooling?

 

[illtake2]

I just got the new VARS. I am getting tired of trying to figure things out. I hope this gets worked out. I could handle a 2 year extension but a 4 year is a little long. Does anyone know when we will find out if they are going to accept the deal. AHHHH so many questions and no one to answer...


Merry Christmas!!

 

[temcgrew]

I hope things work out for us. It all seems really tight lipped, I didn't even know they were talking again.

So what do you think the differences are in the contract voted down and the one the union just proposed? If it's any better, the company most likely will not go for it.

 

[flyer172r]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable talking about the proposal and debating whether the pilot group should've voted on it if we knew what the proposal was. Apparently we won't find out until after mgmt makes a decision on it. Which means...time for idle and somewhat baseless speculation!!!

No matter what the proposal is, I can almost guarantee that it's a last ditch effort to resolve the problem before the single carrier petition is decided upon.

 

[wjpilot]

If this passes, TSA pilots should fire you Union Leader. That is twice now the Union has settled without a pilot vote. If you count the orginal contract, that makes 3. Your union is a good ole boys club and don't care about the pilots. What a joke. I should know, I was at TSA for 6 years. What other Union leader blows out all the tire on his plane at landing, gets fired, then gets his job back and now once again offers a settelment with the company without a pilot vote. How many of your uinon leader are fired now? I wounder if this new proposal will get the fired guys their jobs back.

 

[smokey999]

Here's what I heard from someone who called a union rep:

The deal is slightly better then the offer we voted down, don't know the specifics, but it sounds like it's the same deal with a two or three year extension.

The company said they will have an answer by Friday, but this particular union rep thought they would take longer.

Single Carrier Petition is all but lost, so we don't have much leverage. The only thing going for us is that the company really wants only one company, instead of two. It sounds like they are having a hard time getting more flying secured with this labor issue dragging out.

 

[millhouse21]

If this passes, TSA pilots should fire you Union Leader. That is twice now the Union has settled without a pilot vote. If you count the orginal contract, that makes 3. Your union is a good ole boys club and don't care about the pilots. What a joke. I should know, I was at TSA for 6 years. What other Union leader blows out all the tire on his plane at landing, gets fired, then gets his job back and now once again offers a settelment with the company without a pilot vote. How many of your uinon leader are fired now? I wounder if this new proposal will get the fired guys their jobs back.

Let's not forget that the TSA MEC did not create this situation. They ARE doing their best to come up with the best resolution that they can. They get only contempt and the occasional firing from Mgmt and ALPA national only wants the issue to go away. National doesn't care about the effect on the TSA pilot group; they only want Blowjet on their list. The pressure exerted by both sides to get Dario to sign has been severe. If he really believes that the only way to get a good solution for the pilots is to sign something then I will support him. Will I be dissapointed? Yes. However, I will not forget that our MEC is the ONLY party to this fight that actually represents the interests of our pilot group. Whose interests do you think they represent? No flame, I'm actually curious.

 

[ren]

D.M. is the best union leader TSA has ever had.(so far, and hopefully he stands strong,even against some idiots in the pilot group) He was smart enough to know that had he put that last proposal to a vote, it could possibly pass. It was so bad, it basically meant decreased pay over time. And remember, this is no "delta" or bankrupt USAir. This is Hulas freakin Kanodia who is as greedy as they get making over 28 million dollars a year. One out of four pilots that voted, voted in favor of that last vote. Sickening. What is a shame, is the current pilot group that has a bunch of newbies "thrilled to just fly for nothing" as long as they get a piece on the overnights, and have beer money. The "old" tsa group was a different story. Guess it goes to show you that there's no school like the old school. Thank God for Dario. His leadership is a reminder of the "good ol days" when doing the right thing, no matter what, is what came first. In other words, I totally disagree with you. Oh and by the way, you work for go to hell jets, or are you a newbie?

 

[ren]

oops, accidentally posted it twice

 

[Tarzan]

I'm up for some shameless rumor spereading and inuendo.

I am pretty sure, this one won't be voted on by the pilot group. Bet my bottom dollar, the company will accept this only is Dario signs it right then.

 

[temcgrew]

one would think that since this is the unions proposal to the company that dario has already signed it and now we just wait and see if RL will sign it.

 

[redbook]

As usual, when something significant is going on TSA Lounge is down. Somebody clearly doesn't want us discussing this apparent Blowjet settlement there so let's talk about it here. Any waterskiers out there? What do you think?

I think the union, the company, and alpa national are about to bend the pilot group over once again.

F-ck alpa

 

[airjackson]

and who, in your opinion, would serve us better?

 

[redbook]

and who, in your opinion, would serve us better?

I am not sure of that, but how much worse can it get? Extension after extension? NEVER voting on a contract and then after rejecting a shoot!y offer, being faced with mec ratification of essentially the same offer. That scenario has been played out how many times, over the past 10-15 years?

Our leaders get terminated, one by one, and alpa national does NOTHING. TSH engages in union busting and alpa national does not care. They only want us to ratify any deal, to add several hundred more pilots to the list and grow their dues. THEY CARE ABOUT NOTHING ELSE. ALPA's interest is not ours. We must decertify and move on. ALPA is a total and complete failure and guilty of breach of trust.

And don't tell me we won't have access to those wonderful RESOURCES of ALPA. They haven't meant anything to us, they have not improved our lot one iota. US airways mec didn't even know about scabjet. Give me a fuc!ing break. ALPA is a failure and must be cast aside. Time for new leadership and a new beginning.

 

[millhouse21]

I am not sure of that, but how much worse can it get? Extension after extension? NEVER voting on a contract and then after rejecting a shoot!y offer, being faced with mec ratification of essentially the same offer. That scenario has been played out how many times, over the past 10-15 years?

Our leaders get terminated, one by one, and alpa national does NOTHING. TSH engages in union busting and alpa national does not care. They only want us to ratify any deal, to add several hundred more pilots to the list and grow their dues. THEY CARE ABOUT NOTHING ELSE. ALPA's interest is not ours. We must decertify and move on. ALPA is a total and complete failure and guilty of breach of trust.

And don't tell me we won't have access to those wonderful RESOURCES of ALPA. They haven't meant anything to us, they have not improved our lot one iota. US airways mec didn't even know about scabjet. Give me a fuc!ing break. ALPA is a failure and must be cast aside. Time for new leadership and a new beginning.

Redbook,
I agree with you except that you seem to be blaming our MEC for the failings mentioned above. If you say ALPA national sold us out; I am with you 100%. If you say the company hates our guts and would like nothing better than to fire us all and replace us with the lowest bidder; I agree. What does that have to do with DM? Nothing, he at least has not sold us out.

When will it end? I don't know. Will we ever have a new contract? Apparently not. What do we do? I don't know. However, I do know that blaming our MEC for this will not help.

 

[great cornholio]

I heard that the new proposal is most likely gonna pass. Also heard that the J41 crews will be getting displaced to the CRJ 700 sometime soon.

I also heard that the new proposal is the exact same thing that we voted down a few months ago. The only thing that is better is that it is going to be a 3 year extention instead of 4 years.

 

[redbook]

Redbook,
I agree with you except that you seem to be blaming our MEC for the failings mentioned above. If you say ALPA national sold us out; I am with you 100%. If you say the company hates our guts and would like nothing better than to fire us all and replace us with the lowest bidder; I agree. What does that have to do with DM? Nothing, he at least has not sold us out.

When will it end? I don't know. Will we ever have a new contract? Apparently not. What do we do? I don't know. However, I do know that blaming our MEC for this will not help.

We are on the same page, as are most tsa pilots with any sense. I don't blame the mec, but I do disagree with their policy of "screw it, we didn't get a good deal, so lets ratify a sh!!ty one". VOTE. Then we can only blame ourselves. I want that new contract you speak of.

 

[millhouse21]

Also heard that the J41 crews will be getting displaced to the CRJ 700 sometime soon.

I thought I'd never say this but "that is NOT funny." Well, maybe it's a little funny.

 

[great cornholio]

I thought I'd never say this but "that is NOT funny." Well, maybe it's a little funny.

Yeah I know. I'm not trying to be funny. I really did hear that rumor today. It does make sense I guess. If they displace the EMB guys to the CRJ 700 then displace the 41 guys to the EMB that is way too much training so I could easily see them displacing the 41 guys straight to the CRJ 700. Plus I heard that the other company is getting 20 more planes by the end of the year. So they are gonna need CRJ pilots soon.

 

[millhouse21]

That is not the answer I wanted to hear. It would be pretty ironic if we both ended up wearing ************************* badges in a few months.... I'm not sure how I would deal with that.

 

[Shrek]

Just wait and see guys..........that is all we truly know for now.

It will be nice to chat to some of those "other pilots" when we get re-integrated.

 

[smokey999]

I don't care if I am wearing a G0JETS badge, as long as we are all one list.

 

[wjpilot]

Your MEC didnt sell you out? When was the last time you got to vote on an issue and it passed? After this extension it will be what 10 years since the pilot group voted on a contract.

Nice, if the pilots wont vote the way the company wants, the MEC will do it anyway. Who is paying who? Think about it.

 

[airjackson]

I am not sure of that, but how much worse can it get? Extension after extension? NEVER voting on a contract and then after rejecting a shoot!y offer, being faced with mec ratification of essentially the same offer. That scenario has been played out how many times, over the past 10-15 years?

Our leaders get terminated, one by one, and alpa national does NOTHING. TSH engages in union busting and alpa national does not care. They only want us to ratify any deal, to add several hundred more pilots to the list and grow their dues. THEY CARE ABOUT NOTHING ELSE. ALPA's interest is not ours. We must decertify and move on. ALPA is a total and complete failure and guilty of breach of trust.

And don't tell me we won't have access to those wonderful RESOURCES of ALPA. They haven't meant anything to us, they have not improved our lot one iota. US airways mec didn't even know about scabjet. Give me a fuc!ing break. ALPA is a failure and must be cast aside. Time for new leadership and a new beginning.

You still offer no reasonable alternative to ALPA. I agree that ALPA is not always perfect in representing any carrier. ALPA is a national organization, representing many different groups. Their priorities will not always exactly match ours. Once we accept that, understand that, I still think that ALPA best represents our interests.

As far as voting on issues and contracts, the pilots did vote on the last contract proposal from management. It was soundly defeated. Now, I would offer you that the conditions we find ourselves in have changed significantly since that vote took place. Two more major carriers in bankruptcy along with their associated regional carriers. Concessionary demands from managements. There are NO good alternatives here. Only bad ones. So we need to choose how bad it is going to be. The duty of the MEC is to represent the interests of this pilot group in the best way it sees fit. If that means signing an LOA without a pilot vote, I will support that. -Remember, we voted the MEC into office to do that very thing. I do not expect to have to vote on every single issue that is brought before the MEC. That's what I elected them to do.

I will not get into a character debate about each and every member of our MEC. I couldn't change minds here if I spent all day at this friggin computer. I will simply state that I have spent time with them in furthering this union. I have seen them at work and know that they have the best interests of this pilot group in mind. Will they make every pilot happy all the time? No.

And to those unhappy with this issue or any issue facing TSA,I ask you this. Were YOU there at the picketing events? have you volunteered any time to this union? Have you even bothered to call the MEC officials and talk to them about these issues one on one?

One last item; to all of you who voted "no" on management's last proposal (75% of you). If you never showed up to picket at the subsequent events, you may as well have voted "yes".

 

[redbook]

air,

alpa has failed. We cannot accept representation that doesn't represent us. If you want to donate to the cause of alpa, that is fine. I want my dues to IMPROVE our life at tsa. It has not. Our MEC has our best interests at heart, no doubt. I don't think anybody other than management and the opportunists at scumbag jet has questioned that. Their character and conduct has been beyond reproach. I question the results and tactics. Why ratify something the pilots have rejected? You seem quick to say things are so so much worse in the last few months. More airlines in bankruptcy etc...these were all known issues and doesn't change the fact that TSH MAKES A LOT OF FUC!ING MONEY!!!! Stop being HK's bitch and demand what you deserve.

 

[airjackson]

I can asure you I am nobody's bitch, thank you very much. Nor am I a blind follower of ANY union official or ALPA Natl. I have made my concerns about ALPA Natl known to our MEC. I haven't always agreed on the tactics we've used and have said so to those responsible. I personally would have favored more determined picketing, as that seemed to get the company's attention. Apparently, however, the majority of the pilot group thought otherwise as the DISMAL attendance demonstrated.

So we are left with what options? Please enlighten me as to what this group should do. I am a realist and see a quickly changing landscape for the piloting profession. I am still waiting to hear who would do a better job of representing the interests of the TSA pilots, if not ALPA.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Has anyone seen "Office Space" lately..................?

 

[millhouse21]

You know, the problem with tactics can perhaps also be blamed on National. Ever time somebody suggested a different course of action it was never undertaken because "national wouldn't like it." No full page ads in newspapers, no hiring our own lawyer, no national hiring ban. ALPA wanted to stick to their old play book while trying to "keep from antagonizing" them. What they didn't realise is that it would be impossible to further antagonize the company. They already hate our guts and the only way to get their attention is through their wallets. Well, I'm ready.

 

[temcgrew]

the J41 crews will be getting displaced to the CRJ 700 sometime soon.

What, no more sitting and freezing this winter. I'm all for it!!!

 

[Tarzan]

It will be nice to chat to some of those "other pilots" when we get re-integrated.

Yup, it will be a real short chat.

The only thing I what to know is how those street CA enjoy being on reserve for the next 4 fours. Theres a bunch of FO's here that will have them there for a long time.