TSA Lounge is down!

[redbook]

I am still waiting to hear who would do a better job of representing the interests of the TSA pilots, if not ALPA.

How about tsa pilots? actually VOTING and calling our own shots and not blaming some "national" boogeyman.

tsa lounge down for mx? I think we can all count that as one lie we are being told. Why is that acceptable? Who is so afraid of tsa pilots voice? Its the same playbook and I am sick of it. IT DOESN'T WORK. It goes quiet and then we get hosed. The party line will be "We will get them next time, this was the best we could do."

So tell me again why we can't get rid of alpa? How things are so bad everywhere else that we should just cave and accept whatever management proposes? We make money and a lot of it. Period. We have growth opportunities and everyone at this airline is accepting that we should drag everyone else down and say "it was _____ fault"

I answered your question. Now tell me, how bad does it have to get, extension after extension, mec ratification after mec ratification before you accept we need a new direction?

 

[Skippy]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, (and the occaisonally lady)

First off the remember when Dario held the roadshows-- he explained the repercussions of our vote outcomes. I was there for at least 2 STL ones. He stated and i quote, If the proposal doesnt pass, the MEC and he will work diligently to attempt a better offer-- he never promised! He said it is possible and will try. So when we voted "NO" on the whole proposal-- back before national basically abandoned us and negotiatied TSA in a corner and creating an only way out scenario-- if a proposal that is better than the 4 year deal, he kept his word, albeit- we dont have to like it but he and the MEC did what they said they could. Now, i understand people's frustration- i talk to many of you- but when I say we have no other option and we've exhausted all avenues- we have-- we dont like the deal any more than any of you, but and this is going to sound like a broken record-- 1. we're doing the best we can with what we have, 2. when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.
3. sometimes you have to play the hand your delt. and all the classic cliches fit in this scenario.

Just remember-- negotiations is about leverage, and right now and even in 2 years, we really dont see ourselves as having much--- so we keep what we have(except the 1.5%) get scope ( as good as it can be) put up with it for an extension, make the company stable, profitable, and poised for growth, and most importantly create and maintain employment and advancement.
It's hard to agree with me i know, but we've weighed all other options and this is our best option right now-- we need to take and accept it, and live to fight another day. I really hope i dont need to explain what would happen should we enter contract negotiations--- here's a few tactics--- industry still in poor condition-- company could actually make us take concessions, and of course the worse scenario-- they begin to move A/C to ************************* certificate-- the threat is there and it is real--- and i dont think we want to test the waters-- i mean they started a whole other airline right? Got it up an running quicker than any other regional in the country in the history of certificates-- the would just use those whipsaw tactics to get even deeper cuts--- it's not speculation, it's just reality. Don't think for one minute, it's the MEC's fault, you can totally blame the company for trying to railroad us thru NATIONAL and negotiating behind our backs--- I tried to paint the real picture and threat to those blaming and bashing the MEC. Just remember in the end-- when you get a chance to bid the 70 or 90 seater, upgrade, transition etc.... im sure you will be the first to say "thank you", right? Now, if none of that happens then you may say your opinion, but you'll just have to trust the MEC to do the right thing and be patient and let things develop.
If you have any questions or i can be of any assistance, feel free to email me or use the board.

AJ AKA SKIPPY and im the OG (original gangsta) but there will always be OG'S ( original G0Jetters)

 

[Skippy]

Why cant we get rid of ALPA?

Well it costs money. Alot of freaking money. You see ALPA, may not provide us with much, but they usually always come thru with the $$$$$.

We actually use more $$$ than we generate for them-- so to say they are in it for the money is at best a joke. Alpa provides the means, we provide the know how.

Just TSA Cpts probably only grenerate about $400k a year-- i dont even need to tell you how quickly we would go thru that-- not to mention how much we'd need for a lawyer-- we'd have to find one that worked pro bono until we could even afford it-- can you even estimate what a retainer would be? Where would we get that kind of $$$?

Just remember our job as union officials is primarily representaion, contract compliance ( and Kagan does an excellent job- so well they wrongfully terminated him for it) preserving employment and maintaining quality of life--
Things that are extremely difficult in the current airline atmosphere.

Please dont take my posts as me liking what im saying, because i dont, but it's all we have, so we better make do.

SKIPPY telling like it is since 1978

 

[Skippy]

Also in response to the whole why dont the pilots get to vote statement--- they did vote-- soemthing Dario promised would happen and 75% voted no-- so ok since then the environment has changed, national has changed, other things have changed, so if we can make a deal with what we have we better-- not to mention the deal only needs to get another 26% of the votes---We need to escape the whole vote no mentality just b/c we hate the company-- we need to change our perspective and secure possible future flying with SCOPE while maintaing our employment and not taking MAJOR concessions. We've always been avg and this is really no different.

SKIPPY

 

[redbook]

-We need to escape the whole vote no mentality just b/c we hate the company-- SKIPPY

Ok, so this is just one snippet of your post but I couldn't resist. I voted no, and it was not just an FU to the company. I made the decision based on the fact that I wanted to improve my lot in life, after years of having improved the profitablilty of the company. And you say we should slog on for more years and get nothing?

I really don't believe that you believe all of what you posted. But if you do believe it; well when my fellow tsa pilots start believing the nonsense that we need to keep suffering and adding money to HK's huge bankroll, then the pilot group will have no one to blame but themselves.

We should still vote. Otherwise time for the MEC to go.

 

[Capn Lucky]

Please allow me to echo what dear Cpt skippy said. I've often heard the phrase that you are only worth what you negotiate. It ssounds good to me. That said, the empirical value of an experienced pilot has gone down in a big way again this year. Northwest and Delta are on the bubble and many more layoffs are ahead. In short, as Skippy said, our leverage is diminished accordingly. In a perfect world, we should vote. In this case, I'm going to put a little trust in our MEC to get the job done. We are not in a position to dictate any terms here, regardless of what we would like to believe. Lets keep our eyes on the bigger picture and come back to fight another day. This way, that day will come.

BTW, I don't always agree with the MEC, but if we want to dissent, we should do it on the ALPA board.

 

[airjackson]

Red, You believe that an in-house union would be a better route to go and I respect that. We will simply have to disagree.

You voted "no" on the last proposal. Now be honest. Did you show up to walk the picket line?

Tsa lounge down for mx? You are right, that isn't quite the truth. No one is suggesting it is. Ideally, it would say "TSALOUNGE is currently down so that real people can speak in real voices about real important issues."

 

[redbook]

Fair enough Air J

I was there and in 2000 as well. Why? I don't know anymore. I thought it was to strengthen our position, not to be an opening to surrender and capitulation. I still believe tsa pilots deserve better, we work for a profitable company and deserve to share in its success. If the prevailing attitude is that we have to "protect what we have", then I may be in the minority and I will accept the outcome.

 

[great cornholio]

As much as I hate to say it I don't really think that most TSA pilots have an idea of how bad it is going to be at TSA this summer. We have already lost 7 planes in the past 2 months that have not been replaced with jets. By the end of the summer all of the 41s are going to be gone so that will be another 8 planes gone and replaced by nothing. The best outcome of this will be stagnation for years the worst of course would be a furlough. Contract negotionations with this whole GJ issue in place will be a mess. Hulas will whipsaw us left and right. I have no idea what the MEC has in the proposal, but I hear that it is marginally better than what was offered to us a few months ago. I've also heard that its in Hulas' best interst to get this thing settled because of apparent code share offers from Delta and NWA, however neither of those two code shares will start until the labor dispute is over. I really don't like the idea of giving up stuff when Hulas is making mad money. There was an article I read that said that TSA made 405 million in revenue in 2005. And that something like 45 million of that went straight to Hulas' pocket. The same article also said that GJ's expects to make over 85 million IN PROFIT in 2006. So as a pilot group I feel that we should NOT give up ANYTHING to get the GJ flying. However I do trust that the MEC is looking out for the best intrest of the pilot group as thats what they were voted in to do and we can just as easily vote them out if we need to.

 

[pilot05]

I’m behind the MEC. Given the future rj market, and current situation.

Nothing in life is free. In my humble view, we are buying the flying, a bit more job security (hopefully) and the possibility of ending this crap. Long term, it looks like the cost makes sense.

 

[boulevard]

I want to know who proposed the current deal to the company? Was it certain senior training department pilots or JK/DM? Why couldn't our union leadership propose these plans?

The company won't work with our leadership. They have the upper hand and the power. They steer our union leadership exactly where they want them and ultimately get what they want. The group as a whole is extremely effective, but our leadership is not.

The militant attitudes between our MEC and TSA MGMT benefits Hulas and hurts the pilots. Something needs to change!

 

[redbook]

I want to know who proposed the current deal to the company? Was it certain senior training department pilots or JK/DM? Why couldn't our union leadership propose these plans?

The company won't work with our leadership. They have the upper hand and the power. They steer our union leadership exactly where they want them and ultimately get what they want. The group as a whole is extremely effective, but our leadership is not.

The militant attitudes between our MEC and TSA MGMT benefits Hulas and hurts the pilots. Something needs to change!

You know damn well who it was....and the company doesn't pick our leaders and we don't let them pick our friends....AHOLE. What never changes is that you are a piece of sh!t.

 

[boulevard]

Redbook,

You misunderstood me. My point is, the company would not and will not deal with our current MEC. Therefore any communication or deal had to be offered through a mediator. Rumor has it that the mediators were training department pilots offering a deal from DM. Who knows how much of this is true, but it certainly leaves plenty of room to spin it in a favorable direction no matter what the outcome.

Multiple contract extensions will never get us to section 6 and until then the company is going to continually out manuever us. The first extension was to prevent so called concessions (what do we have to concede?) and the second might be to capture ************************* flying. Is the company really that smart? Compare the win/losses. We aren't doing so hot.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Control. One has more control of the situation than you think. How often do you help your company? You all know what I mean about helping your company. Don't give your company help in anyway.

Have you seen "office space" lately?

 

[redbook]

Redbook,

You misunderstood me. My point is, the company would not and will not deal with our current MEC. Therefore any communication or deal had to be offered through a mediator. Rumor has it that the mediators were training department pilots offering a deal from DM. Who knows how much of this is true, but it certainly leaves plenty of room to spin it in a favorable direction no matter what the outcome.

Multiple contract extensions will never get us to section 6 and until then the company is going to continually out manuever us. The first extension was to prevent so called concessions (what do we have to concede?) and the second might be to capture ************************* flying. Is the company really that smart? Compare the win/losses. We aren't doing so hot.

I reiterate my initial point: the company has no choice but to deal with pilot representatives whomever we determine they are. If we let the company choose who represents us it will be who ever rolls over the fastest. If we need changes to our leadership it would be to take a much much harder line with the company. Frankly I wonder if the company is not delighted with our current leadership and their extensions, as you pointed out.

I don't care what the company spin is; anyone who works at tsa for a week knows where the truth lies. I am not worried about being outmaneuvered in public relations; I just don't want to hand the company more concessions and/or extensions(which are concessions, and here again I agree with you, concede what?). Whomever handed the company the deal; it was still a POS.

The company is not that smart, they are just ruthless and a lot more focused and committed.