Travis Barker - 4 killed, 2 hurt as rock star's jet crashes

[Club ORD FO]

any 60 drivers care to figure out the fuel required for TEB-TUL minus time in air and landing weight back at TEB?

Hmmm... BOW would be about 15,200, Max landing is 19500

little over 1000 miles direct, I'd guess 2.75 hours block. Thats about 3800 lbs burn (does that sound about right to anybody else?) add in a 1200 reserve, and their takeoff weight would have been about 20,200. Thats not counting any pax or bags.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Look HS125 F/O, I am not about to get into some arguemnt with you about all of this.

Dohhhh! was that a swipe at me?

Either way, I am trying to figure out what this aviateme is talking about too and why he blew up like he did. It's as though he didnt even read his own link or really does think reccomend and require mean the same thing. Either way, I doubt he writes manuals. For that matter, since he writes manuals, so do I!

You spelled it out pretty clearly, so hopefully he comes back and realizes he is wayyyyyy off here, and you know if I am saying it, then he really is wayyyyyy off. The know it all insult was a nice catch expecially when it comes back on someone like this.

 

[LJ45]

If you can keep track of when you are 5nm Horiz and 2000 ft vert of of the other then you are my heroe. Here it is:

RECOMMENDED OPERATING PRACTICES. The following aircraft operating practices recommended for RVSM operations with Version 6.04 should be continued when operating with Change 7:

a. TCAS should be operated in the TA/RA mode during all operations in RVSM airspace and Transition Areas.

b. Climb and descent rates in RVSM airspace and Transition areas should be limited to 1,000 fpm when operating within five (5) nm and 2,000 ft of other aircraft to minimize the generation of TAs and RAs.

When and If I forget, I get the TA caution and adjust my rate quicker while looking for traffic. Not a big deal if you forget, happens every day in our airspace, and you shouldn't get a RA warning unless you bust your altitude.

Also, ATC expects more than 1000 fpm in decents most of the time when you are flying Jets.

 

[BoilerUP]

"Should be" and "Must be" are two VERY different things...

 

[HawkerF/O]

If you can keep track of when you are 5nm Horiz and 2000 ft vert of of the other then you are my heroe. Here it is:

RECOMMENDED OPERATING PRACTICES. The following aircraft operating practices recommended for RVSM operations with Version 6.04 should be continued when operating with Change 7:

a. TCAS should be operated in the TA/RA mode during all operations in RVSM airspace and Transition Areas.

b. Climb and descent rates in RVSM airspace and Transition areas should be limited to 1,000 fpm when operating within five (5) nm and 2,000 ft of other aircraft to minimize the generation of TAs and RAs.

Idiot, when you are within 5NM 2000Ft of another aircraft, it's sitting there right in front of you on your TCAS display. You can't help but to see him! You don't even fly in RVSM airpace, do you? Riding on Delta does not count.

 

[LJ45]

I think this thread is getting hijacked...lets get back to the subject...

Thanks!

 

[LJ45]

Hmmm... BOW would be about 15,200, Max landing is 19500

little over 1000 miles direct, I'd guess 2.75 hours block. Thats about 3800 lbs burn (does that sound about right to anybody else?) add in a 1200 reserve, and their takeoff weight would have been about 20,200. Thats not counting any pax or bags.

So, just guessing at least close to Max landing weight.

 

[filejw]

LJ25. Right. I'd like to know what is taught to corp types as far as a reason for a high speed abort.

 

[AviateYou]

When and If I forget, I get the TA caution and adjust my rate quicker while looking for traffic. Not a big deal if you forget, happens every day in our airspace, and you shouldn't get a RA warning unless you bust your altitude.

Also, ATC expects more than 1000 fpm in decents most of the time when you are flying Jets.

That's fine, true about descents, never a perfect world, and they are ATC. I didn't write the FAA document. See how much we learned today? It's just there to try and prevent and/or minimize false T/A's or more importantly false R/A's from the sound of it - but then it's just a recommendation right?

 

[say again]

LJ25. Right. I'd like to know what is taught to corp types as far as a reason for a high speed abort.

Engine failure, fire, loss of directional control, T/R deployment are the ones I go with. If it was a tire blow out and directional control was lost (as someone earlier said it happened to them), then that would qualify for a high-speed abort.

 

[LJ45]

I would say the general consensus is not to abort for tire failure above 80kts unless directional control cannot be maintained. Although, this is not always spelled out this way in training, I guess for liability reasons, they tend to go with what the aircraft or pilot manual recommends.

 

[AviateYou]

Idiot, when you are within 5NM 2000Ft of another aircraft, it's sitting there right in front of you on your TCAS display. You can't help but to see him! You don't even fly in RVSM airpace, do you? Riding on Delta does not count.

Mature response there F/O. You actually sit there and fixate on your TCAS? Is that what you do when the autopilot is on besides pick your boogers? I feel sorry for your passengers. That just shows how ignorant you are. Not all TCAS's are in the same place as yours. Not a smart answer - not at all. Hey everyone Hawker F/O is an expert on TCAS he/she no longer needs to look out the window.

 

[AviateYou]

"Should be" and "Must be" are two VERY different things...

Who cares what you think? Seriously in context explain the difference when dealing with the FAA?

 

[LJ45]

I guess everyone didn't agree to stay on subject when I was trying to be very diplomatic

This is a terrible accident and we should be trying to learn from it and prevent another from happening.

 

[AviateYou]

I guess everyone didn't agree to stay on subject when I was trying to be very diplomatic

This is a terrible accident and we should be trying to learn from it and prevent another from happening.

I apologize - you are exactly right back on the subject. The pictures on TMZ are telling much more than the previous photos.