Tough Choice--SWA or UPS?

[Big Beer Belly]

'Cause it's much more exciting to fly straight and level on autopilot in the A-380 than it is to fly straight and level on autopilot in the 737.

I've never really been able to put my finger on it, but there is definitely a unique feeling to flying international big iron. It is a camaraderie amongst aviators ... similar to what I felt while flying in the military. The atmosphere at the international watering holes where flight crews from many carriers congregate is as lively (usually more so) than in the states, but there's an intangible, underlying sense of mutual respect among the crews, above the usual politeness, that's just absent stateside. Perhaps it's the obvious circumstance of being in a foreign country far from home, but even bumping in to a fellow UPS pilot feels different in Singapore than San Antonio.

 

[YGBSM]

I've never really been able to put my finger on it, but there is definitely a unique feeling to flying international big iron. It is a camaraderie amongst aviators ... similar to what I felt while flying in the military. The atmosphere at the international watering holes where flight crews from many carriers congregate is as lively (usually more so) than in the states, but there's an intangible, underlying sense of mutual respect among the crews, above the usual politeness, that's just absent stateside. Perhaps it's the obvious circumstance of being in a foreign country far from home, but even bumping in to a fellow UPS pilot feels different in Singapore than San Antonio.

Agreed.

And none of which relates to what kind of equipment you got there in.

 

[Clyde]

Look at 410's profile. Nuff said. I fly passengers, and will eventually retire from the airline I am with, and trust me, I want nothing to do with taking out the trash everynight anymore. Been there done that. But I am a mentor to a few young hopefuls over there at Willowrun, and here we go again with friggen UPS strike CRAP. Every company over there will book trips with UPS and expect their pilots to fly them. It is a situation that basically is not fair for the YIP pilots. BIG BROWN EYE isnt even an AIRLINE! It is a parcel service! Be prepared to have a bunch of competent folks in airplanes with all different paint jobs show up and move your stuff.

"I fly passengers, and will eventually retire from the airline I am with, and trust me, I want nothing to do with taking out the trash everynight anymore."

Who do you fly for? Judging by your profile, I'm going to say Spirit, but I could be wrong.

"Every company over there will book trips with UPS and expect their pilots to fly them."
So, how many USA Jet Falcon 20's can possibly handle one 747-sized load from SDF to ANC?

"BIG BROWN EYE isnt even an AIRLINE! It is a parcel service!"
Another good reason to work here. Airlines tend to go bankrupt and furlough pilots. Parcel delivery companies tend to be profitable every year. The paycheck hits the bank on time every two weeks, the amount of money being deposited is a lot, and I enjoy a very good schedule. For all I care you can call us a trucking company or anything else that you want, the money is still very green here.

"Be prepared to have a bunch of competent folks in airplanes with all different paint jobs show up and move your stuff."
Keep dreamin'.

 

[Clyde]

If your a person that likes to be up all night and can only fit in with other pilots, you must go to UPS or FEDEX. If you are a person that likes the occasional chat with a new person in your life and is willing to impress people with your skills, come on over to the light side. We like people,people. I came from the Dark side, and prefer the light side sssssssooooo much more.

"If you are a person that likes the occasional chat with a new person in your life and is willing to impress people with your skills, come on over to the light side."
I have a great idea. Why don't you and I compare our W-2 statements for the last 5 years. You can impress people with your skills and I can impress my banker with the amount of money I'm stuffing into my account each month.

BTW, most people I talk to are very impressed that I already have 5 years seniority at a major, fly international in widebodies, and I'm not even in my mid-30's yet. While you're "impressing" new people with your skills, I'll be impressing people by showing them my 100% paid for house that I will own before I hit age 40.

 

[Clyde]

Final Thoughts

O.K., probably not final, but it sounds good.

We can go on and on about who is better, night vs day, this vs that, and so forth. Just like any decision one makes in life over just about anything, look at the pros and cons and choose accordingly. Nobody knows if they made the right decision in aviation until the day they retire and even then it can be iffy.

Do you like daytime flying, people, and airline terminals? Then go fly people.

Do you like night flying, cans instead of seats, and sorts? Then fly cargo.

I have many friends on both sides of the fence, and each is fairly happy with their decisions. If a person says that night flying isn't for them and they would rather fly people, then that is cool. It's what they want and it makes them happy. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have more respect for somebody who says they don't like flying the backside of the clock than someone who does fly all night and spends every minute complaining about it. A person is neither greater nor weaker an aviator for choosing one over the other.

Base your decision on these factors:

Quality of life opportunities (i.e., schedules)
Domiciles
Job security
Salary and benefits (to include retirement options)
Company growth
Company financials
Historical growth and finance of the company (including furlough trends)
Upgrade times

Other items to look at, but not necessarily deal breakers:

Can I commute?
Varitey of flying (domestic vs international)
Variety of airframes

Finally, if you are fortunate to have a choice between two companies, talk to pilots who are actually employed by both and get the pros and cons right from the horse's mouth.

I have yet to meet a SWA pilot that I did not enjoy meeting. Every one of them that I have had the opportunity to meet over the past few years have been some of the most professional and friendly people I have ever met. I would venture to say that most would be happy to talk to you about the SWA lifestyle.

The same goes for the guys here at Brown. If you want to know what life is like working in our shoes, talk to some of us directly. Most of us too would be very happy to answer some of your questions.

After you have talked to people from both companies, then list out the facts and see which one fits your mold the best. The one that best suits your lifestyle is the one you should choose.

There are some on this board who work for neither company, are clueless about both, but think they know enough to say something. Not to say they aren't entitled to an opinion, but I wouldn't pay much attention to them. You wouldn't contact a stock broker to ask about how to rewire your house, so if you want to know about night freight, talk to the Brown and Purple dudes.

Hope this helps.

 

[Goose Egg]

I would just like to add that the WN vs. Brown decision is defintely a dilema that I hope that I have someday.

-Goose

 

[WillowRunVortex]

"If you are a person that likes the occasional chat with a new person in your life and is willing to impress people with your skills, come on over to the light side."
I have a great idea. Why don't you and I compare our W-2 statements for the last 5 years. You can impress people with your skills and I can impress my banker with the amount of money I'm stuffing into my account each month.

BTW, most people I talk to are very impressed that I already have 5 years seniority at a major, fly international in widebodies, and I'm not even in my mid-30's yet. While you're "impressing" new people with your skills, I'll be impressing people by showing them my 100% paid for house that I will own before I hit age 40.

A. The flight attendents (female) are not bad at my airline. In fact 3 or 4 of them are really good.

B. My bank account is just fine thank-you very much. I own 10 acres and my driveway is just under a quarter mile long.

C. I stayed in a crash pad next to that god foresaken place (SDF) for a year and it almost made me quit flying. That place has got some really interesting folks driving some really interesting vehicles

 

[Clyde]

A. The flight attendents (female) are not bad at my airline. In fact 3 or 4 of them are really good.

B. My bank account is just fine thank-you very much. I own 10 acres and my driveway is just under a quarter mile long.

C. I stayed in a crash pad next to that god foresaken place (SDF) for a year and it almost made me quit flying. That place has got some really interesting folks driving some really interesting vehicles

A: 3 or 4? That many?

B: That's good. You sound like you have good financial sense.

C: Were you near the airport by chance? That is a quite "interesting" area to visit. It's like Belleville but further south. Go further east and it's like being in a different state altogether. I'm about 45 minutes from the airport.

 

[Clyde]

Now whats wrong with Belleville!!??

kidding!

Late at night in the springtime with the windows open, you can hear the many sounds of pagers going off intermingled with the sound of crickets.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Late at night in the springtime with the windows open, you can hear the many sounds of pagers going off intermingled with the sound of crickets.

Hey guys, remember; Conrad himself lives in Belleville. Im pretty sure I am not seeing you guys on NHRA TODAY every Sunday. So give it a break