Tough Choice--SWA or UPS?

[WillowRunVortex]

Tell them that you don't have the honor or integrity to advise a snake.


The right thing to tell them is "Don't fly struck work." It's also very simple.


If you can't tell them the right thing, don't tell them anything at all.





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Ya know, I should have known better to engage in a conversation with an ex- mil guy who puts C-172 in the aircraft experience section, says it all brotha

 

[Hobiehawker]

A scab is a scab and is one for life. No doubt about that. This kinda falls in a grey area for me.

I'm rather certain if UPS or FEDEX ever struck that they would possibly use the PAX carriers to haul some of their freight. Would these pilots be considered scabs also? What about a PAX carrier going on strike and the airline on strike books their PAX on other airlines. I might be missing something here. I would think if UPS or FEDEX strike then a scab would be one to cross their lines and fly their colors. I know during busy times like xmas, at least in the past, UPS would charter other freight airlines to pick up the increase demand. Doesn't this violate some type of scope? Maybe it doesn't even relate.

 

[TonyC]

Here is the problem,,,pilots do just fine over at Willow Run flying mostly auto freight. The biggest problem seems to be everytime contract negotiations start at UPS, pilots at Willow go Oh boy here we go. Because YIP is in the freight business they are automatically called to solve your guy's problems.


P.S, Plus Connie taught your company how to do it prior to 1988

No, here is the problem:

Right is right, and wrong is wrong, and you can't seem to distinguish the difference.

SCABBING is wrong. All the words you use to attempt to justify it are nothing more than Wuh, wuh, wuh, wuh, wuh and blah blah blah blah blah. In the end, SCABBING is still wrong. You're only wasting your breath.



Mobilize every freight airplane in the world, and you're still stuck with the FACT that UPS freight will not be delivered by a Teamster if the IPA strikes. UPS freight will not be picked up by a Teamster if the IPA strikes. One day after an IPA strike begins, there will be no freight TO move. I don't even understand why you'd be slightly concerned. You're expending an awful lot of credibility capital on a non-issue. In fact, I'd say you're unarmed at this point.





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[WillowRunVortex]

A scab is a scab and is one for life. No doubt about that. This kinda falls in a grey area for me.

I'm rather certain if UPS or FEDEX ever struck that they would possibly use the PAX carriers to haul some of their freight. Would these pilots be considered scabs also? What about a PAX carrier going on strike and the airline on strike books their PAX on other airlines. I might be missing something here. I would think if UPS or FEDEX strike then a scab would be one to cross their lines and fly their colors. I know during busy times like xmas, at least in the past, UPS would charter other freight airlines to pick up the increase demand. Doesn't this violate some type of scope? Maybe it doesn't even relate.

No your not missing anything. Thanks for the response, appreciate it.

 

[TonyC]

Ya know, I should have known better to engage in a conversation with an ex- mil guy who puts C-172 in the aircraft experience section, says it all brotha

Yepp, as I suspected, you're out of ammunition and down to personal attacks.



Thanks for playing.






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[TAZ MAN]

Yepp, as I suspected, you're out of ammunition and down to personal attacks.



Thanks for playing.
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Pot....meet kettle..

 

[WillowRunVortex]

I'm also curious about this. I work for an ACMI carrier that periodically flys for UPS during peak season. And I would hate for myself or any of my union coworkers end up on any kind of scab list in the event of an IPA Strike.

To say that no freight would move during the strike is not a correct statement. In 1997, UPS closed the offices of management and asked management types to go to work driving trucks all over the country. A tiny fraction of the cargo moved, but some did nonetheless. I know most of the feeders (non union) flew cargo in and out of SDF during the strike. None of theese men ended up on a scab list.

I only ask theese questions because I want to make sure a clear, defined view of struck work is given prior to a strike of UPS pilots. Because I have no intent to fly struck UPS work, ever. But nor do I want to loose my job.

I know this issue is still a few months atleast away, but the earlier we start asking the questions, the better.

Thanks, I know alot of guys who were in their 20's at the time that flew lears into SDF in 97. It was a big deal at the time, and none of them ended up on ANY scab list. But be assured they were threatened that they would never get another professional aviation job. This is traumatic for a 20 somthing wanting nothing to do with politics but just loving airplanes. I guess you could call it basic training for the life-style. The PAX industry is not quite this hardcore but then again, they didnt choose the Teamsters to represent them.

 

[TonyC]

This kinda falls in a grey area for me.

I know during busy times like xmas, at least in the past, UPS would charter other freight airlines to pick up the increase demand. Doesn't this violate some type of scope? Maybe it doesn't even relate.

Excellent point, and excellent question. It's not gray, but it is a little tricky.


At this very moment, Gemini is operating some charters for FedEx. If FedEx ALPA were to strike today (this is a hypothetical, mind you) those Gemini charters would continue to operate without risk. However, if FedEx attempted to contract for additional charters, or attempted to contract other charter companies, those would violate the "picket line." Any work that WOULD HAVE BEEN flown by striking pilots is considered struck work, and flying that struck work would be scabbing. Those Gemini charters in progress would not have been flown by FedEx pilots, so they would not be considered struck work, even as they used the FedEx callsign. I believe it would be unreasonable to hold Capt Northwest to be responsible for knowing that FedEx had spirited a bag of letters in his belly freight, but not unreasonable for Capt Atlas to recognize a 747 full of FedEx ULDs.


As you suggested, there is the possibility that a passenger airline would attempt to circumvent a strike by booking its passengers on another airline, whether it be a feeder, a code-share, or another competitor. We saw Delta flying while COMAIR was on strike. Who's to know what the individual passenger would have done were there not a strike in progress? However, if the Delta crew is flying a Delta flight in a Delta airplane on a Delta timetable, there's not a problem. If Delta were to attempt to fly a Delta crew and a Delta airplane on a COMAIR flight, timetable, etc., that would have been considered struck work.




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[WillowRunVortex]

Excellent point, and excellent question. It's not gray, but it is a little tricky.


At this very moment, Gemini is operating some charters for FedEx. If FedEx ALPA were to strike today (this is a hypothetical, mind you) those Gemini charters would continue to operate without risk. However, if FedEx attempted to contract for additional charters, or attempted to contract other charter companies, those would violate the "picket line." Any work that WOULD HAVE BEEN flown by striking pilots is considered struck work, and flying that struck work would be scabbing. Those Gemini charters in progress would not have been flown by FedEx pilots, so they would not be considered struck work, even as they used the FedEx callsign. I believe it would be unreasonable to hold Capt Northwest to be responsible for knowing that FedEx had spirited a bag of letters in his belly freight, but not unreasonable for Capt Atlas to recognize a 747 full of FedEx ULDs.


As you suggested, there is the possibility that a passenger airline would attempt to circumvent a strike by booking its passengers on another airline, whether it be a feeder, a code-share, or another competitor. We saw Delta flying while COMAIR was on strike. Who's to know what the individual passenger would have done were there not a strike in progress? However, if the Delta crew is flying a Delta flight in a Delta airplane on a Delta timetable, there's not a problem. If Delta were to attempt to fly a Delta crew and a Delta airplane on a COMAIR flight, timetable, etc., that would have been considered struck work.




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Well, this has all happened once before. No one that I am aware of ended up on a scab list so, advice to the YIP folks is be prepared.

 

[Hobiehawker]

Excellent point, and excellent question. It's not gray, but it is a little tricky.


At this very moment, Gemini is operating some charters for FedEx. If FedEx ALPA were to strike today (this is a hypothetical, mind you) those Gemini charters would continue to operate without risk. However, if FedEx attempted to contract for additional charters, or attempted to contract other charter companies, those would violate the "picket line." Any work that WOULD HAVE BEEN flown by striking pilots is considered struck work, and flying that struck work would be scabbing. Those Gemini charters in progress would not have been flown by FedEx pilots, so they would not be considered struck work, even as they used the FedEx callsign. I believe it would be unreasonable to hold Capt Northwest to be responsible for knowing that FedEx had spirited a bag of letters in his belly freight, but not unreasonable for Capt Atlas to recognize a 747 full of FedEx ULDs.


As you suggested, there is the possibility that a passenger airline would attempt to circumvent a strike by booking its passengers on another airline, whether it be a feeder, a code-share, or another competitor. We saw Delta flying while COMAIR was on strike. Who's to know what the individual passenger would have done were there not a strike in progress? However, if the Delta crew is flying a Delta flight in a Delta airplane on a Delta timetable, there's not a problem. If Delta were to attempt to fly a Delta crew and a Delta airplane on a COMAIR flight, timetable, etc., that would have been considered struck work.
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Understand. How about a FEDEX package on an AA flight that the crew knew about? Or putting on the packages on some extra sections on Gemini? Not FEDEX call signs or flight numbers.

It starts getting cloudy for me.