To the Gulfstream crew at TEB...

[semperfido]

Isn't it considered an in flight emergency if a Gulfstream pilot has to hand fly a raw data approach to minimums?

yeah my fingertips are calloused from too much button pushing and i usually fly approaches at 117 kts so you may have to slow down.

 

[SAEflyer]

So what exactly did this crew say to you?

 

[HawkerF/O]

they are not citation pilots, they are twin cessna pilots. They get in the way of everyone with the exception of the X. That is a real jet the rest are twin cessnas, that is at least what i call them.

Not so fast (optional pun). That Encore is a pretty sweet ride in terms of performance. Those P&W's allow it to out climb (on speed, not on its tail) a great many swept wing jets, and probably everything in it's class (Light Jets). T/O and Landing #s are impressive as well. It's still not the fastest horse in the barn, but get in front of it on the climb-out, and you just might hear, "Turn 15 degrees, vectors for the climb, Citation 5 miles in trail that'll be over taking you". And depending on what you are in, you MIGHT not catch him! At altitude, he'll already be on speed while others burn fuel to accelerate. It'll hit either coast full of PAX out of the midwest, so depending on the winds, it could be a day of learning. With all that said, at the end of the day, it's still a Citation.

 

[Sgt. Hartman]

yeah my fingertips are calloused from too much button pushing and i usually fly approaches at 117 kts so you may have to slow down.

That's cool, I'm only having a little fun:beer: Even at 117 kts. I still have my 172 firewalled to try and keep up!

BTW how many buttons are there in a G550? Someone told me only 3. Taxi, Stop, and Fly.

 

[semperfido]

the four i am familiar with are, auto-throttles on, auto-pilot on, L-nav & V-nav:beer:

 

[empenage]

the four i am familiar with are, auto-throttles on, auto-pilot on, L-nav & V-nav:beer:

What? No auto brakes?

 

[semperfido]

What? No auto brakes?

brakes not needed--TRs outstanding :smash:

 

[empenage]

brakes not needed--TRs outstanding :smash:

I'll say. They sure are!

 

[Sgt. Hartman]

*Slaps self on the head continuously*:smash:

*Yelling at self in uncontrolled manner*

"Stupid, Stupid, Stupid"

"4 buttons Sarge not 3...Four!"

I knew my buddy was full of crap when he told me only 3 :beer:

 

[pilotmiketx]

just remember when you think everyone is in your way remember you're in our way.

.92 need i say more?

So you can do .92 for what, an hour and a half? Then spend a week at the service center. Super.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

So you can do .92 for what, an hour and a half? Then spend a week at the service center. Super.

yeah, or lets see that beloved ".92" in the Nat tracks or the NORPAC routes......not between LA and Chicago.

:erm: .

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

just remember when you think everyone is in your way remember you're in our way.

.92 need i say more?

I'll remember that when I'm half way to RJAA from HPN, watching a movie in the crew rest area while being served a hot meal by my beautiful flight attendant. Oops. Maybe you won't be overtaking me.

But you're right, most Citations are slow, yours is just small and unreliable. My mistake.

Ace

 

[semperfido]

I'll remember that when I'm half way to RJAA from HPN, watching a movie in the crew rest area while being served a hot meal by my beautiful flight attendant. Oops. Maybe you won't be overtaking me.

But you're right, most Citations are slow, yours is just small and unreliable. My mistake.

Ace

ace,
you betta update your profile

-fido

 

[cl604driver]

Hawker fo i dont mean to burst your bubble but that encore is a twin cessna, i cant tell you how many times i have either taken vectors or either hear the citation V series aircraft being vectored out of my way flying the lear 24 or 60. Out climbing your a$$ with 75 knots overtake. maybe you were mistaken and atc was moving a king air out of your way. i cant think of anything that will out climb the lear 24 and 60 and nothing much faster. the encore is not even in the same class. the only citation that i can think of is the X and also the C VII that somewhat impresses me

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

ace,
you betta update your profile

-fido

I know. I guess I still have a love for the old IV.

But Fido, 117Kts? Your landing kind of heavy

Ace

 

[semperfido]

tanker,tanker,tanker....did i say tanker

 

[GVFlyer]

just remember when you think everyone is in your way remember you're in our way.

.92 need i say more?

This is from the current FAI World Record Book for speed over a recognized course between New York and Los Angeles. The Citation has the record for speed in it's class, but not overall - that belongs to the Gulfstream. Just so you don't have to get out your calculator, the GV averaged 535 MPH from New York to Los Angeles in the factory demonstrator; the Citation was over 26 MPH slower.

Teterboro, NJ (USA) - Van Nuys, CA (USA) : 819.39 km/h
Speed over a recognised course
Benjamin M. BUDZOWSKI (USA), Mark O. SCHLEGEL
11/05/1995 Aircraft:
Cessna 750 Citation X
Registration: N752CX
Engines: 2 x Allison GMA 3007C, 6 000 lb each

Teterboro, NJ (USA) - Van Nuys, CA (USA) : 861.98 km/h
Speed over a recognised course
Tom OWENS (USA), Christian M. KENNEDY
03/07/2000 Aircraft:
Gulfstream Aerospace G-V
Registration: N5GA
Engines: 2 X BMW Rolls-Royce BR710, 14.750 lbs each


Sorry to introduce the facts, but if I have to go really fast between say, Dayton, Ohio and Chicago Illinois or between two Citation Service Centers, I'll keep the X in mind. You keep in mind that this record was achieved in a GV; the G550 has 6% more equivalent thrust, is aerodynamically cleaner and easily flys 5,000 nm at Mach 0.87.


GV







~

 

[Tram]

You guys have nothing on a PA-44-180..

 

[HawkerF/O]

Hawker fo i dont mean to burst your bubble but that encore is a twin cessna, i cant tell you how many times i have either taken vectors or either hear the citation V series aircraft being vectored out of my way flying the lear 24 or 60.

1st let me say, you are not bursting any bubble of mine. I don't fly Citations or Hawker anymore, and I am not some Citation apoligist. You are wrong about the Encore and 1/2 reading what I wrote. When I use the term class refering to aircraft I use it as it's used in the industry (VLJ, Light Jet, Mid size, Super mid size, etc). You use is casually with your own meaning and I think that is where you are misunderstanding what I am writing. The Encore is an entirely different animal (performance wise) than a Citation 5 or any straight wing Citation for that matter. If you've flown a LR60 you know what P&W can do with a jet engine. Because of those P&Ws being on the Encore is what makes it such a climber. The straight wing of the Encore is what makes it lack in speed at altitude. I am sure you have heard 5s and 2s etc getting turned or you having to turn for them. But if you are not having to turn or a plane is not being vectored for a climb obviously you'd never know what you are behind or in front of. With that in mind, over the radio, you have no idea what kind of Citation is being talked about. It's just Citation NXXXXX. When you are airborne do the controllers say Citation Excel NXXXXX or Citation V NXXXX and then stop when you land or change freqs? Is that how you know what model Citation is being vectored?
A lear 24 I would say is the exception to light jet out climbing an Encore. If you read my post, you'd see that I said it would out climb lots of swept wings and PROBABLY everything in its class (Light Jet). Once again, with the exception of the LR24, and maybe 1 or 2 other LIGHT lears, what else out climbs the Encore in its class? The LR60 is NOT in the same class (its a Mid Size) as the Encore. I don't know of any Corp jet that'll out climb the LR60. That is 1 impressive airplane all around. Maybe the C750, but I can't say for sure. I've been in a C750 (as a passenger) being FLC'd at .88 doing 1500ft/min well into the 40s, so it can probably hang with the 60 all day long in the climb. If not, the 60 might out climb it, but hang on, cause that C750 is gonna blow right by it under any circumstance. To get max range out of that 60 you'll have to pull it back, and that X will get that same range and more at .88 and probably .92.

Out climbing your a$$ with 75 knots overtake. maybe you were mistaken and atc was moving a king air out of your way. i cant think of anything that will out climb the lear 24 and 60 and nothing much faster. the encore is not even in the same class.

Unless you are Climbing at 375Kts, you dont have a 75Knot overtake on an Encore. That's what I am trying to tell you man, the Encore is not your typical Citation II or V climbing at 230-250. You've got some CJ time (According to your Profile) and think it's the same thing as other Citations. It's not. Talk to someone that has flown the Encore or knows something about one. You really don't know what you are talking aobut when it comes to the Encore. And don't kid yourself, the LR60 is not some speed demon: .81? .82? And let's talk range on that 24. 900NM? 1150NM?

the only citation that i can think of is the X and also the C VII that somewhat impresses me

Ummmmmm, Who gives a Sh!T whether or not you are impressed? I didnt realize you were the authority on this matter.

 

[SAEflyer]

Well since 99% of the Lear 24's out there are not RVSM'd, i'd say that range go's down to about 700miles...But it sure is fun!