To the Gulfstream crew at TEB...

[banned username 2]

flying a B200 around the Midwest and the boss goes only if I want to and I make 150K with a 12K car allowence, I fly 8 days a month, but if I want to fly more the boss tells me to take the airplane and go practice, boss does not believe in taking a trip unless it is scheduled 4 weeks in advance (never on weekends or holdays, just Tue-Thurs) and to top it all off, 30K bonus December 1st every year.

SIGN ME UP! (But only if the $30K bonus is in cash!)

 

[HawkerF/O]

SIGN ME UP! (But only if the $30K bonus is in cash!)

LOL. No kidding! Bring a lunch, cause you'll have to fight me for it, or maybe you wouldn't, cause neither of us would have told the other about it! There is some lucky sap out there who has a job like that, but once again, we'll never know.............

 

[Groundpounder]

big paycheck in a Citation I as opposed to crap money in a G550?

just not how it works pounder.

Now, one can argue they like to stay home more and love the Citation, but they are usually full of crap and would jump on the opportunity to fly a G5 for a good company and make G money.

I know that, silly, I was trying to make a point that most people go where the money and the QOL are, not the aircraft type. Of course the G550 guy is going to make more then the Citation 1 guy.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I know that, silly, I was trying to make a point that most people go where the money and the QOL are, not the aircraft type. Of course the G550 guy is going to make more then the Citation 1 guy.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, even though it will make me even less poplular.

Anyone who would rather fly a Citation than a GV is either clueless or not a 'real' aviator. Fly what you love. Who wouldn't love things like: performance, technology, size, cool destinations, flight attendant, etc. Remember folks, that is why we became pilots. That is why we flip through the pages of all the flying rags. Not for the money or the QOL. We love airplanes. And I, for one, want to fly one of the best.

Now I know that some have other priorities in their lives that prevent them from being gone alot and that a CJ job is a good balance for them, but I still bet they drool over the big, cool Gulfstreams, Falcons and Globals they see in the mags.

Don't make this job about JUST money and time off. It can be so much more.

Ace

 

[semperfido]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, even though it will make me even less poplular.

Anyone who would rather fly a Citation than a GV is either clueless or not a 'real' aviator. Fly what you love. Who wouldn't love things like: performance, technology, size, cool destinations, flight attendant, etc. Remember folks, that is why we became pilots. That is why we flip through the pages of all the flying rags. Not for the money or the QOL. We love airplanes. And I, for one, want to fly one of the best.

Now I know that some have other priorities in their lives that prevent them from being gone alot and that a CJ job is a good balance for them, but I still bet they drool over the big, cool Gulfstreams, Falcons and Globals they see in the mags.

Don't make this job about JUST money and time off. It can be so much more.

Ace

eeh...not so fast...i don't want to fly a 747 or a 737 or a 777 (they are bigger etc). and who cares about FAs--we frequently fly our Gs without one and I don't miss that a bit--in fact , many times it is an improvement . you need to recognize that many people are content doing what they are doing, no matter what particular brand they may be flying. i do like being able to watch Direct TV while sitting on the ramp.

 

[English]

Ok, Ace, time for your spanking. And you are not allowed to enjoy it!

I have no desire to fly a Gulfstream. My company owns one and I've turned the position down a few times. It just doesn't do the trips I like to do. I like to FLY, not watch the autopilot fly for 10 hours at a time. I've flown larger airplanes (737-200) and really enjoyed it, but only when the length of the flights was no longer than an hour. Yes, you read that correctly, I had a 737 job that enabled me to do the flying I love - lots of takeoffs and landings, almost always hand flying, usually 20 to 40 minute legs. Unfortunately the pay and QOL (psysicx where are you?) disappeared so then so did I.

But I do agree that the job is about more than money and time off. That's why I fly an airplane that gives me the type of flying I love - short hops, usually an hour or two, mostly on the West Coast. If I could find another gig in a large aircraft that never flew legs over two hours, I'd be all over it. Oh, and no overnights too. And only working Tuesday. Morning, that is.

Besides, I knew you were talking about me in your exception list

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ok, Ace, time for your spanking. And you are not allowed to enjoy it!

I have no desire to fly a Gulfstream. My company owns one and I've turned the position down a few times. It just doesn't do the trips I like to do. I like to FLY, not watch the autopilot fly for 10 hours at a time. I've flown larger airplanes (737-200) and really enjoyed it, but only when the length of the flights was no longer than an hour. Yes, you read that correctly, I had a 737 job that enabled me to do the flying I love - lots of takeoffs and landings, almost always hand flying, usually 20 to 40 minute legs. Unfortunately the pay and QOL (psysicx where are you?) disappeared so then so did I.

But I do agree that the job is about more than money and time off. That's why I fly an airplane that gives me the type of flying I love - short hops, usually an hour or two, mostly on the West Coast. If I could find another gig in a large aircraft that never flew legs over two hours, I'd be all over it. Oh, and no overnights too. And only working Tuesday. Morning, that is.

Besides, I knew you were talking about me in your exception list

I've already told you, I'd give up my gig in a NY minute to fly a CJ with you.

I hear what you're saying, but two things to think about.

Your Gulfstream is only a GIII. Great plane, but not very tech.
The current numbers published by GAC put the average leg length in a GV at 1.7 hours. Yes we do SOME long legs (which get you to some pretty cool parts of the world), but we also do alot of short hops. I too like to hand fly (I have very nice hands).

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

eeh...not so fast...i don't want to fly a 747 or a 737 or a 777 (they are bigger etc). and who cares about FAs--we frequently fly our Gs without one and I don't miss that a bit--in fact , many times it is an improvement . you need to recognize that many people are content doing what they are doing, no matter what particular brand they may be flying. i do like being able to watch Direct TV while sitting on the ramp.

I LOVE having a flight attendant. Good food and someone new to listen to my stupid jokes.

As for the airliners, they don't thrill me either. If they did, I'd be trying to fly one.

Don't get me wrong, I don't just love Gulfstreams. Even that Citation X looks pretty sexy.

Ace

 

[banned username 2]

Planes are cool... My kids are cooler...

Don't get me wrong, I love to fly, but it really is just a job... After a while, once the novelty wears off, QoL is far more important than the machine you are flying...

 

[HawkerF/O]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, even though it will make me even less poplular.

Correct

Anyone who would rather fly a Citation than a GV is either clueless or not a 'real' aviator.

That is just not true. Like previosuly mentioned, some people actually enjoy flying an airplane that was designed to be flown, not monitored. A GV or IV is much more efficient when flown via automation. That's fine, and we should all appreciate the technological advances aviation creates, but to suggest one is not a "Real" aviatior becasue they enjoy flying, actually doing the flying, is way out of line.

Fly what you love.

I rather fly a LR60 than a gulfstream for the reasons you mentioned. It outclimbs, out manuvers, is more efficient than any G.
Who wouldn't love things like: performance, :We already covered that
technology,: The 60 is very advanced. Not as advanced, but it gets the job done as well as the G minus the Autothrottles. In terms of situational awareness, it delivers the same picture, just on smaller screens and through another format (Collins as opposed to Honeywell, but hey are both fine packages)
size,: You impress the line guys that are new, it's costs you more to land and park, in order to go the same distance, you have to take on much more fuel and that makes any quick turn longer.
cool destinations,: I can assure you the is no airport a G goes into that a LR, Cit, or Hawker can't get into. FOr that matter, why not take a GLEX instead of a G?
flight attendant,: Who cares about a F/A. True, they are there for the PAX's safety, but the world would still operate without onboard.

Remember folks, that is why we became pilots. That is why we flip through the pages of all the flying rags. Not for the money or the QOL. We love airplanes. And I, for one, want to fly one of the best.

Not me. I am lazy, greedy, and stupid and this was the only job I could find that met all of those pre-quals.

Now I know that some have other priorities in their lives that prevent them from being gone alot and that a CJ job is a good balance for them, but I still bet they drool over the big, cool Gulfstreams, Falcons and Globals they see in the mags.

We all have our own opinions, and what is cool to me might not be cool to you and vise-versa. The statement about drool is is pretty arrogant

 

[semperfido]

Correct
some people actually enjoy flying an airplane that was designed to be flown, not monitored. A GV or IV is much more efficient when flown via automation. .

not exactly---you can hand fly all the gulfstream products to your hearts content. no diff than any of the others airplanes out there. it is all personal preference. the biggest diff is a G can go very long distances. doesn't have to-but it can. a hawker can't (get out of its own wayimp: ).

 

[HawkerF/O]

not exactly---you can hand fly all the gulfstream products to your hearts content. no diff than any of the others airplanes out there. it is all personal preference. the biggest diff is a G can go very long distances. doesn't have to-but it can. a hawker can't (get out of its own wayimp: ).

Did you not read what I wrote? I never suggested you can't fly Gulfstream products by hand. What I said is that Gs (modern day Gs) were designed to use and are more efficient when automation (automagic) is used and flown by the computer. The Gs in question were designed to fly long distances, Lears, Hawkers, etc were not. Hawkers and Gs are not even in the same class or competitors, so why have you brought up Hawkers? In closing, I don't fly Hawkers.

 

[semperfido]

yea, i read it. you me?

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I rather fly a LR60 than a gulfstream for the reasons you mentioned. It outclimbs, out manuvers, is more efficient than any G.

You've got to be joking. I think the 60 is pretty cool looking, but its wing is too small and the brakes are pathetic (lets see your climb performance above FL410 or your takeoff performance hot and high). If you've never flown a GV, you shouldn't speak about its handling characteristics. Best I've ever seen.

it's costs you more to land and park, in order to go the same distance, you have to take on much more fuel and that makes any quick turn longer.

No, it doesn't cost me a penny. Purchasing more fuel is again ignorant. I can fly to the West Coast, not fuel a drop, and fly on further than your total range.

cool destinations,: I can assure you the is no airport a G goes into that a LR, Cit, or Hawker can't get into. FOr that matter, why not take a GLEX instead of a G?

Yes, you can land at MOST airports a GV can, you just can't get there.

flight attendant,: Who cares about a F/A.

Don't knock it until you've tried one.

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Planes are cool... My kids are cooler...

Don't get me wrong, I love to fly, but it really is just a job... After a while, once the novelty wears off, QoL is far more important than the machine you are flying...

Then why aren't you flying a Citation or a King Air? As a matter of fact, why don't you have a job that gets you home EVERY night.

My kids are grown and gone. I was a good father to them even though I was gone for weeks at a time. When I was home I was there 100%. That has paid off 100 fold. I had a job that I loved and they could see that. Now they are pursuing what they love. Good seed to plant and a good balance to have in life.

Ace

 

[SCT]

"Don't knock it until you've tried one."
Ace


That's my problem, I tried one.
An old chief pilot of mine, told me as a young FO to never mess around with the FAs........I wish I would have took his advice.......

SCT

 

[HawkerF/O]

You've got to be joking. I think the 60 is pretty cool looking, but its wing is too small and the brakes are pathetic (lets see your climb performance above FL410 or your takeoff performance hot and high).

Let's see your climb performance upto FL410! The LR60 can be at FL430 and on speed in less than 13 minutes. The GV can do that? Above FL430, the 60 is a dog, but it really has no practical purpose for going above 430. It just slows down, but if fuel is tight, you have to go up there.

If you've never flown a GV, you shouldn't speak about its handling characteristics. Best I've ever seen.

I understand that Gulfstreams are a very stable platform, but that 60 is like a fighter. It's size alone won't allow it to manuver as tight as the 60. I am not saying it's a poor flying airplane, I am just saying it is not as nimble as the 60, or any well thrusted smaller jet aircraft for that matter. And what is "Best you have ever flown" is a matter of opinion. There is a GV pilot out there that does not share your same thoughts. It's all opinion.

No, it doesn't cost me a penny. Purchasing more fuel is again ignorant. I can fly to the West Coast, not fuel a drop, and fly on further than your total range.

It takes fuel to carry fuel. Tankering is a viable options at times, but most of the time, it is not as efficient as not doing so. You are only looking at your direct costs, not the indirect costs. I have an excel program that is excellent at determining what it costs to carry that extra fuel. If you'd like a copy, let me know. So, it does in fact cost you $ to tanker fuel.

Yes, you can land at MOST airports a GV can, you just can't get there.

What airport can that G get to that a LR60, Hawker 800, or Citation X cannot? Answer that carefully.

Don't knock it until you've tried one.

Well, depending on how you mean, I have had my fair share of F/As. The 2 from SWA were my favorite. In terms of professionally, in your previous posts you mentioned 2 reasons for having a F/A: to bring you food and to listen to your jokes.

I LOVE having a flight attendant. Good food and someone new to listen to my stupid jokes.

I don't think those are good reasons for having a Flight Attendent on board.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Let's see your climb performance upto FL410! The LR60 can be at FL430 and on speed in less than 13 minutes. The GV can do that? Above FL430, the 60 is a dog, but it really has no practical purpose for going above 430. It just slows down, but if fuel is tight, you have to go up there.

I understand that Gulfstreams are a very stable platform, but that 60 is like a fighter. It's size alone won't allow it to maneuver as tight as the 60. I am not saying it's a poor flying airplane, I am just saying it is not as nimble as the 60, or any well thrusted smaller jet aircraft for that matter. And what is "Best you have ever flown" is a matter of opinion. There is a GV pilot out there that does not share your same thoughts. It's all opinion.

It takes fuel to carry fuel. Tankering is a viable options at times, but most of the time, it is not as efficient as not doing so. You are only looking at your direct costs, not the indirect costs. I have an excel program that is excellent at determining what it costs to carry that extra fuel. If you'd like a copy, let me know. So, it does in fact cost you $ to tanker fuel.
What airport can that G get to that a LR60, Hawker 800, or Citation X cannot? Answer that carefully.
Well, depending on how you mean, I have had my fair share of F/As. The 2 from SWA were my favorite. In terms of professionally, in your previous posts you mentioned 2 reasons for having a F/A: to bring you food and to listen to your jokes. I don't think those are good reasons for having a Flight Attendent on board.

Time to climb to FL410? Got you beat. Especially if we fuel to the same range.

Nimble? I've flown the 60, got you beat there too. Pretty impressive if you think about how much larger the GV is than the 60. This is mostly created by the angle of deflection of the ailerons prior to the spoilers joining in.

Airports? Plane can go coast to coast from a 3,000 foot runway. Can yours? Look up the BFLs and you'll change your tune. While your at it, look up power to weight ratios of the two planes, then figure it our with 5 hours of fuel. You won't be so impressed by your 60s 'power'.

If you had ever flown a Gulfstream, you would know that they publish a very sophisticated tankering formula. The GV is very efficient and its wing can carry alot of fuel with very little degradation in performance.

As you said in another post, you've learned alot from watching other pros. Keep it up!

Ace

 

[semperfido]

no matter what time - day or night- there is always some joker here to argue a pt with--the beauty of FI.com

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

no matter what time - day or night- there is always some joker here to argue a pt with--the beauty of FI.com

And I'm just that joker

C'mon fido, break out the QRH and give me some help here!