To ALL UNITED pilots courtesy of ALL UAX carriers and their pilots

[JoeMerchant]

I couldn't agree more with the BOW policy. If you express guys want to take up a useful cause, take up that one.

I have worked at four different major airlines and have never, ever, left a jumpseater for weight. Many of us are sick of giving express guys a ride to our domicile then walking over to the express gates to be told over and over again that they're weight restricted. So weight restricted that they can't even fill the back of the airplane -- let alone the jumpseat.

I run into this all the time, on my 50 minute commute flight. And yes, we all know it's not just weight, it's often CG. Like I said, if you want to take up a worthwhile fight, make your companies put the friggin' ballast on and/or put the JS in the BOW. Yeah, it's not prudent as far as fuel efficiency goes - but neither is an RJ.

In fairness, I have had guys work the numbers with taxi fuel etc. That was done at some risk to themselves and does not go unappreciated. If you'd work to get the policy changed it would eliminate that risk.

PIPE

Yet another mainline pilot who only wants changes that benefit HIM....How long did most of the regionals take multiple jumpseats while mainline only took 1? We gladly opened every seat up to the jumpseat while you folks only took 1.

 

[eaglesview]

Yet another mainline pilot who only wants changes that benefit HIM....How long did most of the regionals take multiple jumpseats while mainline only took 1? We gladly opened every seat up to the jumpseat while you folks only took 1.

How would this policy only benefit "him" or just mainline? It would oviously benefit everyone.

As for your second point, you are correct that the mainline didn't have unlimited jumpseat till later but we do now so no use rehashing the past.

 

[Fly2AK]

Yet another mainline pilot who only wants changes that benefit HIM....How long did most of the regionals take multiple jumpseats while mainline only took 1? We gladly opened every seat up to the jumpseat while you folks only took 1.

I worked for a regional and we only took 1 JS for years until mainline changed their policy. Try to remember that management makes that policy as well as the priority system and is often used against the pilots as leverage. I had a UAL pilot violate their own policy and allow more than one JS one day at risk to himself. You want to fight, fight with management about the issue, not the pilots. So tell me JoeMerchant, if this is such a big problem why can't you do like I did and go up to the gate and make sure all nonrevs and jumpseaters get on, I did it, it takes little effort. Yes you should have priority in your own jumpseat, with out a doubt. If UAL guys are knowingly taking advantage of this then shame on them, but as the captain of that flight you are the final authority and shame on you for allowing it to happen. Gate agents will always be a pain in the ass but it is up to us to take reponsibility for our own flight. As far as weight is concerned, I always adjusted fuel down to FAR mins to make sure the JS was accomadated, whats the worst that happens you divert for an unforseen problem, big deal everyone got to there destination. For the record, in 8 1/2 years at the regionals I never diverted because of fuel for a jumpseater and I only left 1 person behind in that time and yes we left nearly 10 people behind, nasty day. How many people have the rest of you left behind do to weight and balance? or would you even know if you never go up to the gate to see whats goin on?

 

[CFIT]

I couldn't agree more with the BOW policy. If you express guys want to take up a useful cause, take up that one.

I have worked at four different major airlines and have never, ever, left a jumpseater for weight. Many of us are sick of giving express guys a ride to our domicile then walking over to the express gates to be told over and over again that they're weight restricted. So weight restricted that they can't even fill the back of the airplane -- let alone the jumpseat.

I run into this all the time, on my 50 minute commute flight. And yes, we all know it's not just weight, it's often CG. Like I said, if you want to take up a worthwhile fight, make your companies put the friggin' ballast on and/or put the JS in the BOW. Yeah, it's not prudent as far as fuel efficiency goes - but neither is an RJ.

In fairness, I have had guys work the numbers with taxi fuel etc. That was done at some risk to themselves and does not go unappreciated. If you'd work to get the policy changed it would eliminate that risk.

PIPE

There is no way UAL is going to allow that, literally SkyWest is in a battle just to keep the SkyMall catalog on. UAL wants to back charge us for the 20 pounds of paper it's costing in extra fuel use. There' no fricking way they'll let us add a JS to the BOW.

But none of that is the real issue here, Jump seaters just want priority on their own metal.

Nothing more, and it's the way it should have been in the first place.

Fix the GD software code (20 minute fix), and all of this goes away.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There is no way UAL is going to allow that, literally SkyWest is in a battle just to keep the SkyMall catalog on. UAL wants to back charge us for the 20 pounds of paper it's costing in extra fuel use. There' no fricking way they'll let us add a JS to the BOW.

But none of that is the real issue here, Jump seaters just want priority on their own metal.

Nothing more, and it's the way it should have been in the first place.

Fix the GD software code (20 minute fix), and all of this goes away.

I know if I were in a position to help effect the change that you want, I would delay and resist, simply based on your attitude and the ultimatum Letter. Many UAL pilots are commenting on the Letter and when Skywest comes up, they state that OO aren't even unionize and that they rejected ALPA.

Right or wrong, these are the realities that you are facing... based on in part by the choices you have made....

In addition, what obligation or binding agreement does UAL or U-ALPA have to allow OO pilots priority on OO aircraft.

Of course it makes common sense that OO pilots have j/s priority on their own airplane, but since Skywest has tied its dingy to the UAL monolith, it does come with certain conditions. ie Skywest serves UAL. OO flies where UAL says, when, what to put into its cargo bins, etc...

I do believe that OO pilots should have priority on their own jumpseats... but where is it binding or obligated. And how are the UAL pilots part of the equation? (I am not saying it does or doesn't, but asking the question... from there you state your case...)

It seems this is a OO to UAL managment issue.... not each individual OO pilot and UALPA. IN the meantime this is a PIC methodology.. not an ultimatum letter... Do you have Captains at Skywest or just "guys in the left seat?"

 

[ArcticFlier]

I know if I were in a position to help effect the change that you want, I would delay and resists, simply based on your attitude and the Letter. Many UAL pilots are commenting on the Letter and when Skywest comes up, they state that OO aren't even unionize and that they rejected ALPA.

With all due respect.............and I do mean that, that's the way my 7 and 10 year old kids act when they don't get their way.

It's a simple software fix. Make the call/email.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I know if I were in a position to help effect the change that you want, I would delay and resists, simply based on your attitude and the Letter. Many UAL pilots are commenting on the Letter and when Skywest comes up, they state that OO aren't even unionize and that they rejected ALPA.

Right or wrong, these are the realities that you are facing... based on in part by the choices you have made....

More condesending lectures from the ALPA elite....He is even admiting that because you got "upety"....ALPA won't change....How dare you second class regional surfs stand up for yourselves...Don't you know where you stand in the hierarchy?

Right or wrong Rez....these are the realities that YOU are facing....based on in large part by the choices that mainline MECs and ALPA national have made...

 

[JoeMerchant]

With all due respect.............and I do mean that, that's the way my 7 and 10 year old kids act when they don't get their way.

I suspect your kids act better......:beer:

 

[ArcticFlier]

I suspect your kids act better......:beer:

They do..........but the point was made..........

I'm out for the week now. Going to see Wall-E with the kids and then off to work early tomorrow.

 

[SaturnPilot]

More condesending lectures from the ALPA elite....He is even admiting that because you got "upety"....ALPA won't change....How dare you second class regional surfs stand up for yourselves...Don't you know where you stand in the hierarchy?

Right or wrong Rez....these are the realities that YOU are facing....based on in large part by the choices that mainline MECs and ALPA national have made...

Interesting interpretation of one line of Rez's post...

Just as your opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of the RJDC or the Republican Party, Rez's opinions are simply his own...attaching them to ALPA's stance on issues or saying they represent ALPA's elite is inaccurate.

I agree that the reaction that Rez was talking about could be seen as counter-productive. His intentions seem to be simply mentioning the reality of how UAL pilots will react to this letter. Could it be seen as childish? Sure...But he's simply stating what the UAX pilots who wrote this letter should have thought about as a potential consequence before they gambled their pilots commuting rights.

Pilots as a group get emotional, especially when they don't have all of the facts on an issue. Right or wrong, when a UAL pilot gets a letter that basically states "hi, we have a problem that you did not know about...you have 30 days to fix it, or else", he is most likely not going to respond well to the "or else".

Nobody seems to have an issue with the fact that there is a problem with the jumpseat system that needs to be fixed. The issue seems to be issuing ultimatums and using the jumpseat as a bargaining chip.

Stating that Rez thinks regional pilots are second class regional surfs is woefully ignorant since I'm guessing Rez has spent the majority of his career as a regional pilot