To ALL UNITED pilots courtesy of ALL UAX carriers and their pilots

[Poahi]

...the UAL MEC has decided they own our right to have priority on our jumpseats.

If they've done that, then shame on the UAL MEC. That jumpseat is yours. I get that. I also get that this has festered for way too long as well. I'm just not convinced that this type of threat is the right tactic.

 

[PCL_128]

UAL's MEC apparently does. But it should be a simple fix if 100% of the UAL pilots see differently.

It would be a simple fix if you used education as your method rather than threats and ultimatums. The average UAL pilot has no idea that this is going on. If you hand him a letter that merely educated him and asks him to call his MEC and his company, then you might get somewhere. If you hand him this letter that threatens him, then he's going to get pissed off and want to retaliate. It's the whole "you'll attract more bees with honey..." thing. This is basic politics and diplomacy, folks. Your reps should know better than this.

 

[strega7]

It would be a simple fix if you used education as your method rather than threats and ultimatums.

Why doesn't this tactic work during union negotations? Unions like to make threats to get what they believe is fair, how is this different?

The average UAL pilot has no idea that this is going on.

So ignorance is an excuse? Kinda like not knowing PFT is bad?

If you hand him a letter that merely educated him and asks him to call his MEC and his company, then you might get somewhere.

Might get somewhere? Relying on what someone might do is not the way affect change. As a strong union man you should know that!

If you hand him this letter that threatens him, then he's going to get pissed off and want to retaliate.

Retaliate for what? Educating him about his company not following the jumpseat agreements they agreed too?

It's the whole "you'll attract more bees with honey..." thing. This is basic politics and diplomacy, folks. Your reps should know better than this.

Our reps have worked with UAL for 2 years, the MEC is "happy" with the status quo.

 

[PCL_128]

Why doesn't this tactic work during union negotations? Unions like to make threats to get what they believe is fair, how is this different?

Unions do try to use cooperation. Ever heard of interest-based bargaining? ALPA loves to use it. Unfortunately, management usually isn't interested.

So ignorance is an excuse? Kinda like not knowing PFT is bad?

UAL pilots aren't mind readers. They have no way of knowing this is going on if they aren't educated.

Might get somewhere? Relying on what someone might do is not the way affect change. As a strong union man you should know that!

Unlike Dubya, most people are smart enough to realize that you should exhaust all possible avenues of a peaceful solution before resorting to draconian measures. The average UAL pilot hasn't been educated on this matter yet. You should work on that before issuing threats.

Retaliate for what? Educating him about his company not following the jumpseat agreements they agreed too?

That's not what you're doing. Educating doesn't come veiled in a threat or an ultimatum. Your letter should not include a threat if the intent is to educate and request assistance from the rank and file. I'm not opposed to a letter, just to the threats.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Unions do try to use cooperation. Ever heard of interest-based bargaining? ALPA loves to use it. Unfortunately, management usually isn't interested.



UAL pilots aren't mind readers. They have no way of knowing this is going on if they aren't educated.



Unlike Dubya, most people are smart enough to realize that you should exhaust all possible avenues of a peaceful solution before resorting to draconian measures. The average UAL pilot hasn't been educated on this matter yet. You should work on that before issuing threats.



That's not what you're doing. Educating doesn't come veiled in a threat or an ultimatum. Your letter should not include a threat if the intent is to educate and request assistance from the rank and file. I'm not opposed to a letter, just to the threats.

The problem is that human nature.....Especially Airline Pilot human nature..... is to not get involved until some external force causes some kind of pain or personal hardship.....Not saying that is right...Some of us do get involved before things become a problem....but most do not.....

 

[PCL_128]

The problem is that human nature.....Especially Airline Pilot human nature..... is to not get involved until some external force causes some kind of pain or personal hardship.....Not saying that is right...Some of us do get involved before things become a problem....but most do not.....

That may be true, but that doesn't justify not even trying to appeal to the rank-and-file before beginning threats. Come on, Joey, certainly you can agree that it would be reasonable to appeal to the UAL pilots with a non-threatening letter before resorting to threats and ultimatums.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That may be true, but that doesn't justify not even trying to appeal to the rank-and-file before beginning threats. Come on, Joey, certainly you can agree that it would be reasonable to appeal to the UAL pilots with a non-threatening letter before resorting to threats and ultimatums.

I think it would be a waste of time...The average United pilot has bigger things to worry about right now than try and force their MEC to change a policy that benefits the mainline pilots.....It would simply prolong this policy.....

It's been this way for over 2 years....I'm sure most of the United commuters know what priority they have been getting on the jumpseat....

 

[PCL_128]

I think it would be a waste of time

Diplomacy is never a waste of time. It should always be attempted before resorting to these sorts of tactics.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Diplomacy is never a waste of time. It should always be attempted before resorting to these sorts of tactics.

They spent two years in the "diplomacy" phase....You are way to believing in mainline MECs to do the "right thing".....Force is all they understand....

You will never accept any type of rebellion against ALPA....However as you can see most people disagree with you.....

 

[PCL_128]

They spent two years in the "diplomacy" phase

No they didn't. They have yet to appeal to the rank and file UAL pilots. Their efforts have apparently failed with the UAL MEC, so it's time to try working with the rank and file. If that fails, then alternative measures may be justified. But jumping straight to threats is inappropriate and counterproductive.

 

[eaglesview]

It's been this way for over 2 years....I'm sure most of the United commuters know what priority they have been getting on the jumpseat....

Actually as a commuter I had no idea. I commute from a city that has a mix of mainline and RJ. That being said I would not think for a moment I should have priority over a guy that works for that airline. In my case Skywest or (might) Go Jet.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually as a commuter I had no idea. I commute from a city that has a mix of mainline and RJ. That being said I would not think for a moment I should have priority over a guy that works for that airline. In my case Skywest or (might) Go Jet.

So if these guys had just informed the United jumpseaters that this was happening.....Do you honestly think the United line pilots would have forced the UAL MEC to change their behavior....Be honest now.....

 

[eaglesview]

So if these guys had just informed the United jumpseaters that this was happening.....Do you honestly think the United line pilots would have forced the UAL MEC to change their behavior....Be honest now.....

Here is my honest answer. Having been bumped off many a jumpseat I would first question the accuracy of the letter. After being convinced it is accurate I would then assume it is yet another typical UAL scumbag management ploy to drive yet another wedge between work groups. They would like nothing better than have this flair up. In the end calling the jumpseat coordinator would be a consideration. Calling the MEC would not as there is simply to much other crap going on.

 

[rumrunner300]

Right on brother!!

and one of these days regional pilots will grow a set of balls and stand up for what is right.

THE RETURN OF ALL TURBOJET POWERED AIRCRAFT TO MAINLINE.

REGIONAL = TURBOPROP

If you get off a UAX flight, you should be greated with the smell of clover and cow sh!t. Ah, memories.

 

[Marko Ramius]

The claims you guys are making, don't even fit the letter you've put out. The letter claims it's a UAL management and software problem due to lack of revenue generation-not surprising since that was the reason given for reinstating pass charges a few years back. If it's a MEC problem and you're handing out these 'informative' letters to pilots shouldn't you state that? Seems more likely that you're having as much trouble with UA management as every employee group has had for the last 30 years or so you're moving on to what you feel is a softer target to get what you want. It's kind of like you took a course in airline management 101. I think you're gonna need more than flightinfo innuendo to prove it's a MEC problem.