To all NetJets Hopefuls...

[skiandsurf]

For the newhires that are complaining about the domiciles.....why did you take the job if you knew ahead of time what the story was?

Valid points. However, aviation jobs are all about seniority. This is why Skybus and VA will have no problem getting pilots to fly A-320s for $65,000.

 

[Abbey]

Valid points. However, aviation jobs are all about seniority. This is why Skybus and VA will have no problem getting pilots to fly A-320s for $65,000.

Seniority is an issue, but if you don't like the job or the work rules and plan on leaving anyway, what does it matter? The guys willing to fly an A320 for $65,000 will be complaing about it in 6 months time and of course, it will be someone else's fault.

 

[hopalong]

I've been commuting for 7 months now, 3hrs. 40 minutes one way and it's not
bad at all. I call friends, family and tenants on the drive there and back.
It's only two times per month. If I had a 9to5 job, I'd be doing more driving.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I truly feel bad for the new-hires that have to drive several hours to and from their domicile. I have a good friend who got hired last year and has to drive 300 miles each way to work. Before he even sent in a resume, we talked at length about the domicile issue among others. He made his decision to come to NJA and hasn't griped about his drive. He knew what he was getting into and he also knows that there isn't likely to be any change to the domicile debacle for several years.

Truly, I do feel for the guys who have to drive hundreds of miles or buy airline tickets, but it was their decision alone to accept the job. No one should accept a job at NJA based on a hope and a prayer that the domicile debacle will go away any time soon. One can roll the dice and hope that it does but don't be ticked off in the mean time. Of course, if the domicile issue does change, I'd bet that there will be quite a rush to get hired at NJA so the people who rolled the dice during the "debacle time" will have that many more pilots junior to themselves.

 

[VVJM265]

My sim partner moved to his domicle and others are considering it. Most of those who are doing so seem to have come for the regionals and have done the commute thing.

It cost me ~ $200 to get to "commute" to DAL and back from CRP for my inital FSI class. So in round numbers, I'll waste about 5 days of per diem each trip, plus another in a hotel the night before day one. OUR CHOICE to stay in CRP for another year while my wife finishes grad school. Then we'll move closer to the domicle. Granted, I have a retirement check coming in from the Navy and can after to buy tickets for the commute, but what I didn't want to be doing was commuting on a jump seat (too much uncertainty) to a crash pad (sounds too much like det) waiting for the phone to ring. Every airline has some sort of base, at least here I can exercise some control over the commute and plan my life once on the 7n7 schedule when finished with training.

Every airline or job has some sort of pain the first year or so. One chooses their posion. The benefits here are great, the people are great, the equipment is great, and the flying will be great. Do I like the domicile system? No, but I knew what I was getting into. Do I hope it will change? Yes. Will I jump in and help the union continue to make things better? Yes. After listening to my classmates horror stories of the 121 world, I feel like I chose wisely. Thank you IBT 1108.

And keep up the cheerleading effort NJW.

My 2 cents,
265

 

[cocknbull]

I suggest next time your new hire partner starts bitching about home basing you tell him how you feel and ask that he talk about something else. I have discussed and not complained about this issue with everyone I have flown with and random guys in the pilot lounge and not one has suggested we keep things the way they are. Infact most admit it was a huge mistake to vote in an issue that will divide the pilot group.

The issue does not just involve new hires who are now unhappy commuters. It also involves seniority, bidding, and relocation, which none of you HAVES have mentioned because to you it is simple. I HAVE the new guys don't but they new it to begin with. Remember we are your brothers to and you were also new at one point. Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH. Think about the guy whose wife gets transfered to Denver, and now he must resign his seniority and start at the bottom somewhere else. Anyone on property who doesn't think we should afford everyone on property the same opportunities is no brother of mine and will be treated as such.

 

[Wankel7]

This has been a really interesting and informative thread. Thanks for the information. I am waiting for a DAL interview and have considered moving to CMH if I had to. But I had no idea how long upgrade could be. Anyways, thanks for the good read.

Wankel

 

[fischman]

I suggest next time your new hire partner starts bitching about home basing you tell him how you feel and ask that he talk about something else. I have discussed and not complained about this issue with everyone I have flown with and random guys in the pilot lounge and not one has suggested we keep things the way they are. Infarct most admit it was a huge mistake to vote in an issue that will divide the pilot group.

The issue does not just involve new hires who are now unhappy commuters. It also involves seniority, bidding, and relocation, which none of you HAVES have mentioned because to you it is simple. I HAVE the new guys don't but they new it to begin with. Remember we are your brothers to and you were also new at one point. Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH. Think about the guy whose wife gets transfered to Denver, and now he must resign his seniority and start at the bottom somewhere else. Anyone on property who doesn't think we should afford everyone on property the same opportunities is no brother of mine and will be treated as such.

I completely agree with you, and have not met a single soul who actually thinks this is a good thing for the new hires. However you MUST remember that the negotiating committee had us vote on a proposal that provided for MY family a substantial pay raise, HBA, scope, 401k, benefits, etc... You negotiate for the group, but vote for yourself.

What would you have done in my shoes? I voted yes, and am still glad I did. I helped secure a stable future for my wife and kids, and if I could do it all over again I would still vote yes.

If you would like HBA, I support getting the knowledge out to NJA prospects. Let them know what they are up against. If NJA comes upon a staffing problem (which hasn't been the case. I guess we have a good contract if so many want to work with us ) management might open up more domiciles.

I'll start now. If you are thinking about coming to NJA, here are the facts:

1) You WILL be put into 1 of 5 domiciles and will be responsible to get to and from that domicile on YOUR OWN DIME. TEB, CMH, PBI, DAL, LAX.

2) Domiciles are probably not going to go away until the next round of negotiations

3) A person hired today can expect to upgrade in 3 to 5 years.

4) The most base pay a First Officer at NJA can expect to see is in the high $40k's


If this is acceptable to you, then come aboard. NetJets is a great place to work. If not, go to Citation Shares.


Respectfully,

 

[FLYLOW22]

86 Newhires have already voted with their feet over the Domicile issue.

Enjoy the free type rating and no training contract!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Funny thread........time to start complaining till the next contract? Honeymoons over?

I never went on a honeymoon.

 

[imacdog]

86 Newhires have already voted with their feet over the Domicile issue.

Enjoy the free type rating and no training contract!!

Is that 86 since the new contract began, and how does that number compare with overall attrition?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Yes you guys barely tapped into the level of respectability for part of your pilot group. Good job, but the thread starter is complaining about new hires. There are few, if any companies besides NetJets operating with a b scale. Therefore a new hire would not understand what it is like to pay the same percentage of dues, but not be afforded the same QOL as his fellow pilots. Also most new hires who have not worked for a company like NetJets before would not understand exactly what the job is like and how hard commuting is until he actualy gets on line. After all we are the first batch of b scalers. I have warned everyone I know about the NetJets b scale and have suggested that they look elsewhere. I thank you very much for getting rid of the training contract and the free type. I will be leaving as soon as something better comes around.

I do agree with the thread starters main point and that is don't come to NetJets unless you live in one of the domiciles.

I wasn't comenting on the thread starter, only your comments mid thread.

Your bold words above are perhaps the best thing you said in this entire thread.

Also, please consider what affect management had on the final CBA document. They are the other party who negotiated the CBA and I can confiirm by 100% that the IBT never mentioned the word Domicile in ANY Section openers.

The very fact that you continue to spew pilot-hating venom on we (the pilots) who achieved all we did in CBA 2005 and yet still call us a failure indicates that you have a very simplistic, singular viewpoint; Yours.

A CBA is NEVER a perfect deal... unless you are talking about UALs CBA 2000 following their Summer of Love. And then 9/11 happened and the damned thing got abrogated. Oops.

You are angry because you accepted a job here that you thought was differnet. Perhaps you feel that you were lied to by NJA management/Pilot recruitment? I don't know.

I can tell you that ignorance on the part of any applicant regarding what a domicile IS and what it means to them is NO excuse.

Yes it sucks.

Yes it could be addressed YESTERDAY by Sr. NJA Management by adding Domiciles (without Union approval even necessary).

Yes we will have to pull together when we have the next opportunity (CBA 2010).

Yes we will succeed with Unity and Pride.

No, we will not be subsidizing a money losing Domicile basing system with any pilot earnings because it's ano cost item for the company. Crew food costs them more than the Domiciles "save" money.

The only question is: Are you going to stick around until the next round of negotiations to allow yourself the experience of Unity and Pride or will you leave early full of piss and venom for other pilots (thus letting "them" win)?

Either way the pilot group as a whole wins.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Pilto Churn

Is that 86 since the new contract began, and how does that number compare with overall attrition?

Well, in the Frationals economists like to describe the loss of Owners as a "Churn Effect".

Pilot attrition can also be thought of as Pilot Churn.

Pilot Churn used to be representative of EVERY seniority level; year 10 through year 1.

Since the contract I have seen that probably 95% of those leaving are pilots with less than 1.5 years with the company (Domicile Pilots). The other handful died, decided to retire for good, or went to NJI (they still are on the Union senioity list but show on the company attrition list becasue they keep one that isn't real... it makes them feel better.).

 

[FLYLOW22]

Valid points. However, aviation jobs are all about seniority. This is why Skybus and VA will have no problem getting pilots to fly A-320s for $65,000.

Any pilot who flies a Transport Category airplane weighing more than 140,000 lbs for $65,000 is a loon. Notice I didn't say flying as a Captain or F/O... I meant period.

 

[notaNJApilot]

Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH.

That is not the way the LOA works. Upgrading will never force you to move. The bids are 2 part-
1) a vacant position (captain, fo)
2) a vacant domicile - open only to pilots already in the position

 

[gunfyter]

That is not the way the LOA works. Upgrading will never force you to move. The bids are 2 part-
1) a vacant position (captain, fo)
2) a vacant domicile - open only to pilots already in the position

This is correct.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Infact most admit it was a huge mistake to vote in an issue that will divide the pilot group.

When the TA came out, the general feeling was that the domicile issue sucked, but that it couldn't last because the company could not possibly meet its hiring goals with only those 5 domiciles. We were wrong, and we were wrong because of people like you. You did not do your research and understand what you were getting into.

Case in point:

Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH.

You are wrong. You might want to read and understand the CBA and associated LOAs before continuing to complain.

 

[notaNJApilot]

Anyone have any ideas as to the grand scheme behind domiciles? Would it actually work if a majority of the pilots were domiciled? Being able to pick up and drop off a plane at a domicile would save a lot of airlining, but it would dramatically increase positioning flights to/from the domiciles. Just think about how much more productive you could be on your first and last days (I'm sure you'd prefer not to think that way).

I think domiciles will work once there are domiciled captains. Of course if PICs continue bidding PIC positions in the same class, the domiciled FOs may never turn into domiciled captains.

 

[imacdog]

Of course if PICs continue bidding PIC positions in the same class, the domiciled FOs may never turn into domiciled captains.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. If a class I PIC bids into another plane in class I, doesn't that leave an opening in his current position for someone to upgrade into?

 

[skiandsurf]

I'm not sure I understand this statement. If a class I PIC bids into another plane in class I, doesn't that leave an opening in his current position for someone to upgrade into?

In theory, you are correct. But NJs has a captain/FO ratio of about 65/35. When a captain bids another plane, the need for a replacement captain is not there. When the captain bids come out, this is going to be current captains getting a new type rating, or an FO upgrading to captain. The way it has been going, is the captains are getting additional type ratings, and the FOs are remaining FOs.