To all NetJets Hopefuls...

[cocknbull]

I suggest next time your new hire partner starts bitching about home basing you tell him how you feel and ask that he talk about something else. I have discussed and not complained about this issue with everyone I have flown with and random guys in the pilot lounge and not one has suggested we keep things the way they are. Infact most admit it was a huge mistake to vote in an issue that will divide the pilot group.

The issue does not just involve new hires who are now unhappy commuters. It also involves seniority, bidding, and relocation, which none of you HAVES have mentioned because to you it is simple. I HAVE the new guys don't but they new it to begin with. Remember we are your brothers to and you were also new at one point. Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH. Think about the guy whose wife gets transfered to Denver, and now he must resign his seniority and start at the bottom somewhere else. Anyone on property who doesn't think we should afford everyone on property the same opportunities is no brother of mine and will be treated as such.

 

[Wankel7]

This has been a really interesting and informative thread. Thanks for the information. I am waiting for a DAL interview and have considered moving to CMH if I had to. But I had no idea how long upgrade could be. Anyways, thanks for the good read.

Wankel

 

[fischman]

I suggest next time your new hire partner starts bitching about home basing you tell him how you feel and ask that he talk about something else. I have discussed and not complained about this issue with everyone I have flown with and random guys in the pilot lounge and not one has suggested we keep things the way they are. Infarct most admit it was a huge mistake to vote in an issue that will divide the pilot group.

The issue does not just involve new hires who are now unhappy commuters. It also involves seniority, bidding, and relocation, which none of you HAVES have mentioned because to you it is simple. I HAVE the new guys don't but they new it to begin with. Remember we are your brothers to and you were also new at one point. Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH. Think about the guy whose wife gets transfered to Denver, and now he must resign his seniority and start at the bottom somewhere else. Anyone on property who doesn't think we should afford everyone on property the same opportunities is no brother of mine and will be treated as such.

I completely agree with you, and have not met a single soul who actually thinks this is a good thing for the new hires. However you MUST remember that the negotiating committee had us vote on a proposal that provided for MY family a substantial pay raise, HBA, scope, 401k, benefits, etc... You negotiate for the group, but vote for yourself.

What would you have done in my shoes? I voted yes, and am still glad I did. I helped secure a stable future for my wife and kids, and if I could do it all over again I would still vote yes.

If you would like HBA, I support getting the knowledge out to NJA prospects. Let them know what they are up against. If NJA comes upon a staffing problem (which hasn't been the case. I guess we have a good contract if so many want to work with us ) management might open up more domiciles.

I'll start now. If you are thinking about coming to NJA, here are the facts:

1) You WILL be put into 1 of 5 domiciles and will be responsible to get to and from that domicile on YOUR OWN DIME. TEB, CMH, PBI, DAL, LAX.

2) Domiciles are probably not going to go away until the next round of negotiations

3) A person hired today can expect to upgrade in 3 to 5 years.

4) The most base pay a First Officer at NJA can expect to see is in the high $40k's


If this is acceptable to you, then come aboard. NetJets is a great place to work. If not, go to Citation Shares.


Respectfully,

 

[FLYLOW22]

86 Newhires have already voted with their feet over the Domicile issue.

Enjoy the free type rating and no training contract!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Funny thread........time to start complaining till the next contract? Honeymoons over?

I never went on a honeymoon.

 

[imacdog]

86 Newhires have already voted with their feet over the Domicile issue.

Enjoy the free type rating and no training contract!!

Is that 86 since the new contract began, and how does that number compare with overall attrition?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Yes you guys barely tapped into the level of respectability for part of your pilot group. Good job, but the thread starter is complaining about new hires. There are few, if any companies besides NetJets operating with a b scale. Therefore a new hire would not understand what it is like to pay the same percentage of dues, but not be afforded the same QOL as his fellow pilots. Also most new hires who have not worked for a company like NetJets before would not understand exactly what the job is like and how hard commuting is until he actualy gets on line. After all we are the first batch of b scalers. I have warned everyone I know about the NetJets b scale and have suggested that they look elsewhere. I thank you very much for getting rid of the training contract and the free type. I will be leaving as soon as something better comes around.

I do agree with the thread starters main point and that is don't come to NetJets unless you live in one of the domiciles.

I wasn't comenting on the thread starter, only your comments mid thread.

Your bold words above are perhaps the best thing you said in this entire thread.

Also, please consider what affect management had on the final CBA document. They are the other party who negotiated the CBA and I can confiirm by 100% that the IBT never mentioned the word Domicile in ANY Section openers.

The very fact that you continue to spew pilot-hating venom on we (the pilots) who achieved all we did in CBA 2005 and yet still call us a failure indicates that you have a very simplistic, singular viewpoint; Yours.

A CBA is NEVER a perfect deal... unless you are talking about UALs CBA 2000 following their Summer of Love. And then 9/11 happened and the damned thing got abrogated. Oops.

You are angry because you accepted a job here that you thought was differnet. Perhaps you feel that you were lied to by NJA management/Pilot recruitment? I don't know.

I can tell you that ignorance on the part of any applicant regarding what a domicile IS and what it means to them is NO excuse.

Yes it sucks.

Yes it could be addressed YESTERDAY by Sr. NJA Management by adding Domiciles (without Union approval even necessary).

Yes we will have to pull together when we have the next opportunity (CBA 2010).

Yes we will succeed with Unity and Pride.

No, we will not be subsidizing a money losing Domicile basing system with any pilot earnings because it's ano cost item for the company. Crew food costs them more than the Domiciles "save" money.

The only question is: Are you going to stick around until the next round of negotiations to allow yourself the experience of Unity and Pride or will you leave early full of piss and venom for other pilots (thus letting "them" win)?

Either way the pilot group as a whole wins.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Pilto Churn

Is that 86 since the new contract began, and how does that number compare with overall attrition?

Well, in the Frationals economists like to describe the loss of Owners as a "Churn Effect".

Pilot attrition can also be thought of as Pilot Churn.

Pilot Churn used to be representative of EVERY seniority level; year 10 through year 1.

Since the contract I have seen that probably 95% of those leaving are pilots with less than 1.5 years with the company (Domicile Pilots). The other handful died, decided to retire for good, or went to NJI (they still are on the Union senioity list but show on the company attrition list becasue they keep one that isn't real... it makes them feel better.).

 

[FLYLOW22]

Valid points. However, aviation jobs are all about seniority. This is why Skybus and VA will have no problem getting pilots to fly A-320s for $65,000.

Any pilot who flies a Transport Category airplane weighing more than 140,000 lbs for $65,000 is a loon. Notice I didn't say flying as a Captain or F/O... I meant period.

 

[notaNJApilot]

Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH.

That is not the way the LOA works. Upgrading will never force you to move. The bids are 2 part-
1) a vacant position (captain, fo)
2) a vacant domicile - open only to pilots already in the position

 

[gunfyter]

That is not the way the LOA works. Upgrading will never force you to move. The bids are 2 part-
1) a vacant position (captain, fo)
2) a vacant domicile - open only to pilots already in the position

This is correct.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Infact most admit it was a huge mistake to vote in an issue that will divide the pilot group.

When the TA came out, the general feeling was that the domicile issue sucked, but that it couldn't last because the company could not possibly meet its hiring goals with only those 5 domiciles. We were wrong, and we were wrong because of people like you. You did not do your research and understand what you were getting into.

Case in point:

Think about the guys in DAL that may never get an upgrade because the company wants all new captains in CMH.

You are wrong. You might want to read and understand the CBA and associated LOAs before continuing to complain.

 

[notaNJApilot]

Anyone have any ideas as to the grand scheme behind domiciles? Would it actually work if a majority of the pilots were domiciled? Being able to pick up and drop off a plane at a domicile would save a lot of airlining, but it would dramatically increase positioning flights to/from the domiciles. Just think about how much more productive you could be on your first and last days (I'm sure you'd prefer not to think that way).

I think domiciles will work once there are domiciled captains. Of course if PICs continue bidding PIC positions in the same class, the domiciled FOs may never turn into domiciled captains.

 

[imacdog]

Of course if PICs continue bidding PIC positions in the same class, the domiciled FOs may never turn into domiciled captains.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. If a class I PIC bids into another plane in class I, doesn't that leave an opening in his current position for someone to upgrade into?

 

[skiandsurf]

I'm not sure I understand this statement. If a class I PIC bids into another plane in class I, doesn't that leave an opening in his current position for someone to upgrade into?

In theory, you are correct. But NJs has a captain/FO ratio of about 65/35. When a captain bids another plane, the need for a replacement captain is not there. When the captain bids come out, this is going to be current captains getting a new type rating, or an FO upgrading to captain. The way it has been going, is the captains are getting additional type ratings, and the FOs are remaining FOs.