This is why the last payrates offered by NJA were "insulting."

[Ultra Grump]

To whoever moved this the first time - I wanted input from those on the frac board, not "non-aviation-related chat." Thanks.
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$70,000 to just get by

California's working families must make hard choices and worry about the future

By Dana Bartholomew, Staff Writer

By the time John Patton reached 50, the man hailed as "the best barber in L.A" had hoped to have his own house, good health insurance and a few bucks in the bank for retirement. But for many working families in Los Angeles County, high prices and low wages have thwarted the American dream, according to a study released today on the cost of living in California,

"For me, man, it's definitely week to week," said Patton, 48, the single father of a teenage son, as he finished up a flattop at Styles Ville Barbershop and Beauty Salon in Pacoima.

"All the luxuries, extras, can wait. I can't go to the movies right now, and it's OK. If it came down to buying some school clothes for my son or paying the cable bill, I'd buy the clothes."

Patton's family is not alone.

According to the California Budget Project, it now costs $70,000 a year - nearly four times the federal poverty standard of $19,300 - for the average family of four with two working parents to pay the basic bills in Los Angeles County. For single parents with two kids, it costs $54,000...
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The rest of the story here: http://www2.dailynews.com/news/ci_3067538

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This is why the pay rates in the last offer from NJA management were "insulting."

 

[FamilyGuy]

Grump - why are you wasting everyone's time and this boards resources by posting the exact same thing that you did yesterday in this thread:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=63122


As I pointed out earlier, and people in the other thread did as well - DONT LIVE THERE if you dont like the cost of living in LA.

NJA pilots live all over this country.

Fewer than 5% of NJA pilots have LA or New York City as their gateway, so your point is not relevant.

 

[String Chz]

So Family Guy....why is the Company so insistant that new hires live at one of the 5 RCA's? LAX and TEB being one of the most expensice places in the country to live.

Do they really think that the majority of the new hires are going to come from MCO, DAL and CMH?

If they think they can't get people to come here now...wait until they require new hires to fly out of the limited RCA system.

Of course, Bridgeway Bob will find some way to blame the Union for it.

By the way....what is our NET hiring for this year so far? Remember to take into consideration the 70+ pilots who left this year.

Is BB still threatening to furlough?

 

[avbug]

Crikey, guys. This is maddening.

If you don't like it there, then work someplace else!!!

I'd never work for a company that I thought was abusing me. I wouldn't cry about it, or pollute the air in FBO's around the country with it, or march or picket or whine incessantly...or take over web boards with nothing but rants about how sad my life is. I'd just find another job.

But that's just me.

Enough, already. Enough.

 

[GVFlyer]

To whoever moved this the first time - I wanted input from those on the frac board, not "non-aviation-related chat." Thanks.
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$70,000 to just get by

California's working families must make hard choices and worry about the future.

...

This is why the pay rates in the last offer from NJA management were "insulting."

Yep, that's why I turned down Chief Pilot Gulfstream Longbeach when it was offered to me. In the Savannah area I lived in a gated community with a club, golf courses, swimming pools and a marina. In Long Beach, even with the differential the company was willing to pay, all I would be able to afford was a condo.

GV

 

[Ultra Grump]

Grump - why are you wasting everyone's time and this boards resources by posting the exact same thing that you did yesterday in this thread:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=63122


As I pointed out earlier, and people in the other thread did as well - DONT LIVE THERE if you dont like the cost of living in LA.

NJA pilots live all over this country.

Fewer than 5% of NJA pilots have LA or New York City as their gateway, so your point is not relevant.

Did you not read the first sentence? Someone moved the thread right after it was posted, into the "non-aviation-related chat" forum. It was meant to be read here, by the NJA folks who frequent this board, not all the other yahoos who don't have a dog in this fight. Although Gulfstream200 has some great points over on that other thread - you might want to look at it.
Why do you think the company wanted LAX to be an RCA, and pay a premium to those who live there? Because LAX and the other RCAs are where a large percentage of the owners live, at least part-time. It's more convenient for the company. The cost of living is becoming exhorbitant throughout the country, not just in LA or NYC.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Crikey, guys. This is maddening.

If you don't like it there, then work someplace else!!!

I'd never work for a company that I thought was abusing me. I wouldn't cry about it, or pollute the air in FBO's around the country with it, or march or picket or whine incessantly...or take over web boards with nothing but rants about how sad my life is. I'd just find another job.

But that's just me.

Enough, already. Enough.

I didn't say I don't like it here. I do. The pay sucks. Do you disagree that the pay at NJA sucks? You will not find any of my posts where I complain about any other part of the company. I am simply pointing out hard figures of why the company's last pay offer was inadequate. If you don't like it, don't read these threads.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Did you not read the first sentence? Someone moved the thread right after it was posted, into the "non-aviation-related chat" forum. It was meant to be read here, by the NJA folks who frequent this board, not all the other yahoos who don't have a dog in this fight. Although Gulfstream200 has some great points over on that other thread - you might want to look at it.
Why do you think the company wanted LAX to be an RCA, and pay a premium to those who live there? Because LAX and the other RCAs are where a large percentage of the owners live, at least part-time. It's more convenient for the company. The cost of living is becoming exhorbitant throughout the country, not just in LA or NYC.

Thanks for thinking i have a few good points...

However,best advice I could ever give would be DONT EVER WORK AT NETJETS.

Only the ignorant blame thier employer for paying them poorly. If you want a raise go out and get it. You guys cant be ignorant enough to think anyone is going to DOUBLE your salary? stop listening to your stupid union and go get PAID..... (elsewhere)

.

 

[rice]

Thanks for thinking i have a few good points...

However,best advice I could ever give would be DONT EVER WORK AT NETJETS.

Only the ignorant blame thier employer for paying them poorly. If you want a raise go out and get it. You guys cant be ignorant enough to think anyone is going to DOUBLE your salary? stop listening to your stupid union and go get PAID..... (elsewhere) .

Damn Buddy, don't sugar coat it:smash: . Sure am glad I'm on your good side. BTW I agree with you:beer: Lets get a cold one soon.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

dang Buddy, don't sugar coat it:smash: . Sure am glad I'm on your good side. BTW I agree with you:beer: Lets get a cold one soon.

Hey Rice!

yeah, I like that beer idea!!

or I better go out on a trip soon, getting testy on flightinfo.com...

summers coming to an end, Im getting cranky, like a bitch.

imp:

 

[squonk]

Gulfstream 2k:

If you want a raise go out and get it

OK, you may have a point there. How about we make a stand to get a raise and if it doesn't work out, then go out and get a raise?

Some have been furloughed one too many times. Some just want to put down roots and not be an aviation nomad.

 

[avbug]

Some just want to put down roots and not be an aviation nomad.

Then perhaps aviation is not for them.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Only the ignorant blame thier employer for paying them poorly. If you want a raise go out and get it. You guys cant be ignorant enough to think anyone is going to DOUBLE your salary? stop listening to your stupid union and go get PAID..... (elsewhere)

.

I'm not "blaming" my employer. I am pointing out to the company stooges why the latest offer from the company is inadequate.

The biggest drawback to our current contract is Section 27 - Wages. It was inadequate in 1998, and did not make any allowances for COLA increases, so it's doubly inadequate today. I came here knowing what the pay was. Overall, it's about the same (a little less, but not appreciably) as what I was making at my former job, with more upside potential.

I came here for that potential. I am working to make the potential a reality. Is that ignorant?

Being in a union shop, we don't have the ability to go kiss ass and ask for a raise. We have to negotiate for them. So by your logic if we are dissatisfied with the current pay we should just keep the contract we have and suck it up, or go find work elsewhere? I guess you have never asked for a raise, right? Because you got hired at a certain pay rate, and if it became inadequate for your needs and skills, you left and found a better-paying job, right? Because you aren't ignorant like the rest of us?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

pathetic.

Trying to make it better? maybe not taking the job for loser wages in the first place would have been the right start? huh? thats the shady past every Netjet pilot wants to forget about.....and its the nail in your coffin.

Now all of a sudden you are worth 3X the amount you agreed to a few years ago? no wonder your management keeps handing you guys your asses and you are the laughing stock of the industry.

Union shop...negotiating instead of kissing ass? who is kissing ass? If my employer does not keep me happy with dough I prove my worth, expect what I need and, if not happy.....move elsewhere that would suit me..free marketplace... and you? Hows that "negotiating" working for you?

All you morons do is come on here and argue with a couple of dispatchers and make threats to "Shut the F'er down".

What a joke.

 

[On Your Six]

pathetic.

Trying to make it better? maybe not taking the job for loser wages in the first place would have been the right start? huh? thats the shady past every Netjet pilot wants to forget about.....and its the nail in your coffin.

Now all of a sudden you are worth 3X the amount you agreed to a few years ago? no wonder your management keeps handing you guys your asses and you are the laughing stock of the industry.

Union shop...negotiating instead of kissing ass? who is kissing ass? If my employer does not keep me happy with dough I prove my worth, expect what I need and, if not happy.....move elsewhere that would suit me..free marketplace... and you? Hows that "negotiating" working for you?

All you morons do is come on here and argue with a couple of dispatchers and make threats to "Shut the F'er down".

What a joke.

Dude, you need to chill out. I am tired of your ranting - what do you have in this fight? For years I have been reading your posts - 98% are condescending and your holier-than-thou attitude is getting tiresome. You add very little value - you just shoot others down. Boy, you're so cool!

At the end of the day, this is a forum people use to educate themselves, communicate with others and to vent their frustrations. Viewing this forum is voluntary - don't feel compelled to participate. Most people agree that the NJA guys are getting the royal $haft - so, let them vent. If you don't like the commentary, go back to the corporate board and show us all how important you think you are....

 

[acaTerry]

.....

 

[beytzim]

Hey guys, I was in your boat just a few short months ago. My frustrations were causing me sleepless nights, problems at home, and small bouts of depression.

But you know what, I fixed it, and now I'm happier then ever! How did I do it? I left Netjets and never looked back.

Forget about Nutjets ever being the company you thought it was promised to be. It's over. It's a time-building company no better than a commuter. Forget all the promises that Shamtulli or the MEC has told you. YOU are master of your domain, so do something about it! Leave!

I know the job market sucks right now. If you're over the age of 45, its really tough to get hired by an airline, so carry a stack of resumes with you and give them out to every pilot you meet at an FBO and get a corporate job - so what if you'll have to relocate, get over it, people do it all the time. If you're under 45, you're an idiot if you don't have a B-737 type and a CURRENT application at Continental, Jblue, UPS, FedEx, and SWA.

Netjets sucks, it will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER pay a descent salary, so STOP hoping and do something about it already!

 

[Ultra Grump]

Nope, nope, nope. Sorry, you must have missed the thread where we said we're going to begin to raise our standards. One of the things that we're doing here is disagreeing without being disagreeable. Calling somebody a name that might otherwise get your nose broken if not for being in cyberspacial anonymity would classify as such.

Too bad. Your post was otherwise well put.

So here ya go. See you in three days.

UAL78

pathetic.

Trying to make it better? maybe not taking the job for loser wages in the first place would have been the right start? huh? thats the shady past every Netjet pilot wants to forget about.....and its the nail in your coffin.

Now all of a sudden you are worth 3X the amount you agreed to a few years ago? no wonder your management keeps handing you guys your asses and you are the laughing stock of the industry.

Union shop...negotiating instead of kissing ass? who is kissing ass? If my employer does not keep me happy with dough I prove my worth, expect what I need and, if not happy.....move elsewhere that would suit me..free marketplace... and you? Hows that "negotiating" working for you?

All you morons do is come on here and argue with a couple of dispatchers and make threats to "Shut the F'er down".

What a joke.

I have never said "STFD."

I have never said I should be paid 3x my current pay.

I have said that we should be paid a fair salary for the work we do, and that the POSTA and the last offer by the company do not measure up.

When company men come on here and tell me that the company has offered the best they can and that it's fair, I provide evidence to the contrary.

When xxxxxxx like you come here and tell me I'm a moron for trying to improve the pay at an otherwise pretty good job, it just shows your own ignorance.

Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension:

maybe not taking the job for loser wages in the first place would have been the right start? huh? thats the shady past every Netjet pilot wants to forget about.....and its the nail in your coffin.

I came here knowing what the pay was. Overall, it's about the same (a little less, but not appreciably) as what I was making at my former job, with more upside potential. I came here for that potential. I am working to make the potential a reality.

Yep, trying hard to forget it.

Crawl back over to the corporate board. Why do you care what we make or how we go about improving our contract? How exactly does it affect you? I'll tell you one way it might - when we finally take your God's-Gift-to-Aviation advice to move on, and start taking up whatever corporate job openings there are, there'll be a whole lot fewer chances for you to move on yourself. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

 

[squonk]

pathetic.

Trying to make it better? maybe not taking the job for loser wages in the first place would have been the right start? huh? thats the shady past every Netjet pilot wants to forget about.....and its the nail in your coffin.

Now all of a sudden you are worth 3X the amount you agreed to a few years ago? no wonder your management keeps handing you guys your asses and you are the laughing stock of the industry.

Union shop...negotiating instead of kissing ass? who is kissing ass? If my employer does not keep me happy with dough I prove my worth, expect what I need and, if not happy.....move elsewhere that would suit me..free marketplace... and you? Hows that "negotiating" working for you?

All you morons do is come on here and argue with a couple of dispatchers and make threats to "Shut the F'er down".

What a joke.

Man are you dense. Grump explained it to you and you still don't get it.

Oh and one more thing TWO THOUSAND clubber. Get a life.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Sorry certain words, even though spelled creatively are not allowed here. Too bad, the word was used for effect and not for content too... didn't need it to make your point.

Take three days off to cool down and re-think your participation style. Feel free to report other posters who engage in the same tactics which got you banned.

UAL78

Man are you dense. Grump explained it to you and you still don't get it.

Oh and one more thing TWO THOUSAND clubber. Get a life.

let me guess....you are another 32K/yr netjets pilot?

take corporate jobs? xxxxxxxx...you fools have branded yourselves the chumps of the trade. Not too many places will touch you or you would have left a LONG time ago.....hell even the lower end 135 outfits (who still outpay you badly) wont touch you because you consider them SCABS right? remember that? oh you are so organized.....

whatever.

good luck with the contract boys.