Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

The real plan mgmt has for the future at Pinnacle

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
I think a good topic of discussion should be the better theme song: One Day at a Time or The Fall Guy. Pat Harrington is the best hair dryer guy but the fall guy theme song kicked ass.
 
Delayed again for another week. I guess all the XJ guys who are "in the know" must be scratching their heads?

Lots of progress has been made. Yada yada. Keep believing this crap until the holidays are over, and then prepare for all hell to break lose when they stop playing ball and transferring airplanes.
 
9E pilots what else do you need in order to flip this place upside down? I mean phukin goodness ASA got there ******************** by being united and doing something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
altimaklr said:
Delayed again for another week. I guess all the XJ guys who are "in the know" must be scratching their heads?

Lots of progress has been made. Yada yada. Keep believing this crap until the holidays are over, and then prepare for all hell to break lose when they stop playing ball and transferring airplanes.
Click to expand...

Didn't surprise me one bit. The only reason I scratch my head is why were not together on this.... This is the part that benefits both of us. SLI discussions should be fun (*sarcasm*).
 
CptMurf said:
I've talked to my reps and I've talked with our negotiators. These are my friends... I've flown with them in both seats on 3 different airplanes, I've gotten drunk with them, I've upgraded with them, I've downgraded with them, they have never lied to me, and have no reason to. They have all told me, the negotiations are going well, and that it has been eye opening to both 9E negotiators and mgmt. in how XJ negotiators and our lawyer approach contract items. The timeline was tight (45 days does not equal 45 days at the table), and somewhat unrealistic. But they are optimistic that it will be done by the 2nd.
Click to expand...

So, are they optimistic about next week too?

Were you around when XJ gave pinnacle pilots 1:3 years during that SLI?
 
Last edited:
altimaklr said:
So, are they optimistic about next week too?

Were you around when XJ gave pinnacle pilots 1:3 years during that SLI?
Click to expand...
Yes, they are optimistic it will be done...soon. But they are DETERMINED to do it correctly. That is more important do me than a couple of days.

Might want to talk to one of those individuals, there are plenty still around. It was NOT an SLI. If it were we wouldn't be doing this now, would we?
 
CptMurf said:
Yes, they are optimistic it will be done...soon. But they are DETERMINED to do it correctly. That is more important do me than a couple of days.
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem that the problems lay with the detail work. The problem is that PNCL executives are a bunch of cheap a-holes. Most of the financial and big work rule issues are still open. Doesn't that tell you something?
 
DoinTime said:
Doesn't seem that the problems lay with the detail work. The problem is that PNCL executives are a bunch of cheap a-holes. Most of the financial and big work rule issues are still open. Doesn't that tell you something?
Click to expand...
Those are the last item negotiated in ANY contract.

Some sections bogged them down
ie. Section 1 (specifically scoping out a 3rd party "Corp")
Training and Testing Section (specifically who's doing the training "contract or inhouse")
There were a lot of new concepts to your past negotiations and foriegn to mgmt, which we (XJ JCBA negotiators) were going to be unwaivering on.

What do you guys want? Do you want the JCBA to fail? Or will you be unhappy no matter what?

These volunteers have done an OUTSTANDING job given the short time frame. They are close and I believe we all will be happy with the outcome. Please support them and let them finish.

I still stand by my earlier statement, "It will be done when it's done." Mgmt. wants it done as much or more than we do, and there will be SERIOUS finacial repercussions if it is not done....and soon.
 
CptMurf said:
There were a lot of new concepts to your past negotiations and foriegn to mgmt, which we (XJ JCBA negotiators) were going to be unwaivering on.
Click to expand...

You do realize that Mesaba management is at the table, right? Seems that if you're negotiators are going to be "unwavering" on certain issues that these negotiations may extend out for a very long time. I wouldn't anticipate that PNCL executives won't wait for this deal forever.


...there will be SERIOUS finacial repercussions if it is not done....and soon.
Click to expand...

Serious repercussions for who?
 
I feel sorry for the pessimists. Your defeatist attitudes have got to spill over to your crew, passengers, and families. I hope that at some point you regain your interest in bettering yourselves and this industry.
 
DoinTime said:
You do realize that Mesaba management is at the table, right? Seems that if you're negotiators are going to be "unwavering" on certain issues that these negotiations may extend out for a very long time. I wouldn't anticipate that PNCL executives won't wait for this deal forever.
Click to expand...
Would you rather they fold and give in just to get a TA?

DoinTime said:
Serious repercussions for who?
Click to expand...
Well if it causes Corp to lose flying, than I guess for everyone. You can't "STFD" without causing pilots to lose out either. So, I would say you need to choose your battles, and be willing to pay the price.
 
CptMurf said:
I feel sorry for the pessimists. Your defeatist attitudes have got to spill over to your crew, passengers, and families. I hope that at some point you regain your interest in bettering yourselves and this industry.
Click to expand...

It's not defeatist. It's actually the contrary, despite most peoples conspiracy theories. I can understand your lack of urgency since your XJ contract is not too bad, but for us it's been 3-6 years. Most 9E pilots recognize the futility of these negotiations, and their likely reason is just to delay things until the holidays are over. Most 9E pilots are yelling at the MEC to get picketing events planned before the holidays for maximum effect, as well as getting back to our own negotiations. It may be in our interest to agree to what was achieved during the last mediated sessions, (which for the most part are superior to the XJ contract), since we already are negotiating a JCBA anyway that will soon override it.
 
Whats going to happen on monday night? Are we going to get real answers ? or just tap dancing around our questions and concerns? Better yet is the MEC going to insult our intelligence by blowing more smoke up our A$$?
 
So these are the open Sections..

One
Two
Three (Compensation)
Four
Seven (Vacation)
Eleven (Training)
Twenty Four
Twenty Five (Scheduling)
Twenty Six
Twenty Seven
Twenty Eight
Thirty One

Yea, I'd say they are really close to a good deal. This includes the three toughest sections!

The MEC continues to request patience after almost 6 years with no picketing in sight? Amazing..
 
altimaklr said:
Most 9E pilots recognize the futility of these negotiations, and their likely reason is just to delay things until the holidays are over. Most 9E pilots are yelling at the MEC to get picketing events planned before the holidays for maximum effect, as well as getting back to our own negotiations.
Click to expand...


Why are Pinnacle pilots getting so itchy to get back to negotiations on their own? Was it working well before the purchase? Do you think you will have more bargaining power on your own? Do you think you will get a better contract? What has changed now that makes you think Pinnacle will negotiate and get a contract for you on your own? Is Mesaba and Colgan holding you back from a "good" contract? Is Pinnacle's MEC able to work with managment on their own better than a joint effort with Mesaba and Colgan's MEC?
 
I'm starting to think that the Pinnacle guys have a point (less some of the harsh attitudes). It seems their management has recognized an enormous opportunity to shove our mediocre, outdated contract down their pilots' collective throats AND get out of an obscenely expensive health care package without even having to renegotiate section 6.

I don't know, it sure looks really good from management's end...but hey, we get 75% deadhead pay!

Seriously, and all pessimism aside, the company is trying so hard for this because it is good for them. There simply is not another reason. We at XJ seem to have been caught up in this drive for a unified contract, one which really won't do much more for us than what we have.

Maybe we should all take a step back and look very hard at just what, if anything, we are trying to achieve with this.
 
Yea, just heard the flight attendants got close to a grand for their annual end of the year bonus.

Pinnacle must not have any money.

Management is trying to string the pilot group through the holidays and eventually come to terms on the cheapest contract they possibly can get by with.

Look at it this way, how much money has Phil and his cronies pocketed over the 5+ years of contract talks? Even at a 10 million dollar signing bonus, they have come out far, far ahead in the long run.
 
redflyer65 said:
Management is trying to string the pilot group through the holidays and eventually come to terms on the cheapest contract they possibly can get by with.
Click to expand...

And we are trying to get the BEST contract we can possibly get by with. Isn't that the entire point of negotiations?
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom