The real plan mgmt has for the future at Pinnacle

[Smarta$$]

3 months?!? Us XJ guys let it last that long? We need to STFD now!! These 9E guys have waited for a contract too long, and us waiting one more day is too long. Our negotiators don't know what we're in for. This mgmt. team is different than what we have dealt with in the past, they will lie and stall. We are weak by even negotiating with them.

Did I miss anything SmartA$$? (It's getting old.)

Prove to me you have an effective, active strategy besides just showing up prepared to negotiate. Frankly, if this does work out it will be because of a legitimate business need and will have NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the XJ MEC, who has done nothing wrong, but who has done nothing at all different than our MEC has done for YEARS. So far you have contributed nothing more than committee work and strategy brainstorming, of which I challenge you to reveal ANYTHING your MEC has suggested that was innovative or original. Something effective that was not tried or suggested before???? Anything besides showing up prepared????

Its getting old hearing how you guys know how to handle these situations, when it turns out you handle them the same way we do. You have proven to be no more than the wet noodle that Pinnacle pilots have always been.

 

[bri5150]

Prove to me you have an effective, active strategy besides just showing up prepared to negotiate. Frankly, if this does work out it will be because of a legitimate business need and will have NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the XJ MEC, who has done nothing wrong, but who has done nothing at all different than our MEC has done for YEARS. So far you have contributed nothing more than committee work and strategy brainstorming, of which I challenge you to reveal ANYTHING your MEC has suggested that was innovative or original. Something effective that was not tried or suggested before???? Anything besides showing up prepared????

Its getting old hearing how you guys know how to handle these situations, when it turns out you handle them the same way we do. You have proven to be no more than the wet noodle that Pinnacle pilots have always been.

I can't believe I am jumping in on this again. The amount of time worked on THIS contract (not YOUR contract) has been 3 months. What the hell do you want man? What has YOUR MEC come up with that is original? Has your MEC even showed up prepared? How are Mesaba pilots a wet noodle? Our union spent millions of dollars in bankrupty fighting our company that wanted to just impose a contract. From what I know, in 2004, operations were actually shut down for a night just before management gave us a contract. What has Pinnacle done? Stop attacking us. WE ARE NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!!! There will be a time in which it will make sense to burn the place down if we don't get a contract. When there is momentum in negotiations, things are actually getting done, and we are getting most of what we are asking for, I don't think that's a good time to burn it down. Have you even heard about what has been TA'ed? I honestly haven't heard one thing that isn't the same as, or an improvement on our current book. I would imagine it would be even better for you considering your current contract.

 

[Smarta$$]

You missed the point entirely. Try rereading it again.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

You missed the point entirely. Try rereading it again.

I have reread what you wrote.
We don't have to prove anything to you. I frankly don't care what you think about our MEC. Except for 3 things our current contract is so beyond what you have that I am worried you guys will accept less thus giving me a paycut. Which is something I will not accept.

Who knows what will happen if something doesn't get signed in the next 3 days of negotiations. My union is hopeful. I will go with that.

 

[RJLoser]

I think what smarta** is saying is that your time is running short. I think these joint negotiations may be a dog a pony show. I think XJ's ship may have already sailed by the end of the week. What XJ does not understand is that PCL mgt is going to do exactly what their business model dictates. This has been successful for them.

 

[gojo]

Well when Pinnacle holdings bought us, they also bought our contract. I'm pretty sure since we are not in section six and our contract is willfully violated that we can strike imediatly. How would that go for Pinnacle? It would not be in anyones best interest to not settle this with one contract and one list

 

[CptMurf]

Do the 9E guys get the same number / same quality updates from their negotiators and MEC that we do? Because everything I have heard from our guys has said the deal is close. Not done, and there is still a lot of work to do in some sections. But they ALL seem very encouraging of the process so far and optimistic that the TA will be coming soon. This may sound like koolaid, but I have never caught our union lying to us over my 12 years here. Defiantly not the doom and gloom some of the 9E guys propagate here.

Then again, maybe they just aren't listening to their reps.

 

[DoinTime]

Well when Pinnacle holdings bought us, they also bought our contract. I'm pretty sure since we are not in section six and our contract is willfully violated that we can strike imediatly. How would that go for Pinnacle?

Nope...You're completely wrong about that. I've not heard that anything Pinnacle Corp has planned would violate your agreement anyway. Am I missing something? They will transfer the XJ jets to Pinnacle and they will offer employment to the dislocated pilots. Seniority integration terms will be up to ALPA, not the company.

 

[higney85]

Do the 9E guys get the same number / same quality updates from their negotiators and MEC that we do? Because everything I have heard from our guys has said the deal is close. Not done, and there is still a lot of work to do in some sections. But they ALL seem very encouraging of the process so far and optimistic that the TA will be coming soon. This may sound like koolaid, but I have never caught our union lying to us over my 12 years here. Defiantly not the doom and gloom some of the 9E guys propagate here.

Then again, maybe they just aren't listening to their reps.

Not to ruffle feathers... But the Pinnacle pilots know that over 40 issues still remain for a JCBA. The 9E pilots went on ice back in late June trying to finish up our last six (6). This info and a laundry list of those items in broad strokes has been emailed to all the pilots as of about a week ago.

 

[gojo]

I should know better than to listen to some poeple. I just got done talking to a 9E FO and he was saying that the plan was to move the planes to the 9E cert. and staple us on the bottom as FO's at new hire or 2nd year pay. That would be a pretty big violation. I'm not sure why I let it get to me?

 

[xjhawk]

Are 9E pilots not hearing the same things from their union leadership as we at mesaba are? Our leadership are hopeful that in the next few days the remaining issues can be knocked out and we will have a viable TA. Everything I have heard says that what already has been penned in good for all our pilots and what they are asking for is in line with what we have (at Mesaba) with some tweaking to make it better. I do not know what the plan is if something is not TA'd but I have heard most think our contract will remain in effect. I have also heard through many different sources that Pinnacle Corp has been warned by Continental and Delta about its performance numbers and has been told a staffing model such as Mesaba is preferred. Same was said about their training programs. I think the writing is on the wall and in order to grow with Continental (United) and get more flying from Delta Pinnacle will have to pony up and at least bring a contract to the table that is at least up to Mesaba pilot standards (which I can assure you, will be good for us all).

 

[gojo]

Are 9E pilots not hearing the same things from their union leadership as we at mesaba are? Our leadership are hopeful that in the next few days the remaining issues can be knocked out and we will have a viable TA. Everything I have heard says that what already has been penned in good for all our pilots and what they are asking for is in line with what we have (at Mesaba) with some tweaking to make it better. I do not know what the plan is if something is not TA'd but I have heard most think our contract will remain in effect. I have also heard through many different sources that Pinnacle Corp has been warned by Continental and Delta about its performance numbers and has been told a staffing model such as Mesaba is preferred. Same was said about their training programs. I think the writing is on the wall and in order to grow with Continental (United) and get more flying from Delta Pinnacle will have to pony up and at least bring a contract to the table that is at least up to Mesaba pilot standards (which I can assure you, will be good for us all).

You and I are on the same page. However the rumblings from many at Pinnacle are that we are about to be thrown under the bus. I don't know whether this is coming from management or the rank and file.

 

[DoinTime]

Pinnacle will have to pony up and at least bring a contract to the table that is at least up to Mesaba pilot standards (which I can assure you, will be good for us all).

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Mesaba contract good enough for life at Pinnacle? You have no idea what you are in for. There is no chance the Mesaba contract would pass at Pinnacle. Outside of a few bright spots, it pretty much sucks.

 

[altimaklr]

Are 9E pilots not hearing the same things from their union leadership as we at mesaba are? Our leadership are hopeful that in the next few days the remaining issues can be knocked out and we will have a viable TA. Everything I have heard says that what already has been penned in good for all our pilots and what they are asking for is in line with what we have (at Mesaba) with some tweaking to make it better. I do not know what the plan is if something is not TA'd but I have heard most think our contract will remain in effect. I have also heard through many different sources that Pinnacle Corp has been warned by Continental and Delta about its performance numbers and has been told a staffing model such as Mesaba is preferred. Same was said about their training programs. I think the writing is on the wall and in order to grow with Continental (United) and get more flying from Delta Pinnacle will have to pony up and at least bring a contract to the table that is at least up to Mesaba pilot standards (which I can assure you, will be good for us all).

That is correct. Most of our union email is pessimistic at best. picketing preparation is already being made when the negotiations fail. It's fair to say most 9E pilots view the XJ pilots as naive/over-optimist.

 

[CptMurf]

That is correct. Most of our union email is pessimistic at best. picketing preparation is already being made when the negotiations fail. It's fair to say most 9E pilots view the XJ pilots as naive/over-optimist.

You know what, that's fine, I take being called over-optimistic. I would rather hear that than your screwed and we're going try to screw you some more in integration.

I've talked to my reps and I've talked with our negotiators. These are my friends... I've flown with them in both seats on 3 different airplanes, I've gotten drunk with them, I've upgraded with them, I've downgraded with them, they have never lied to me, and have no reason to. They have all told me, the negotiations are going well, and that it has been eye opening to both 9E negotiators and mgmt. in how XJ negotiators and our lawyer approach contract items. The timeline was tight (45 days does not equal 45 days at the table), and somewhat unrealistic. But they are optimistic that it will be done by the 2nd.

I will listen to my friends, my reps, over ANY 9E pilot, rep or not (sorry Higney) on how this will go down. And it is not even close to the "transfer the a/c, offer employment, JCBA failure" crap I read on these boards. Why are ALL XJ posts constructive and optimistic and ALL 9E posts doom and gloom?

 

[CptMurf]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Mesaba contract good enough for life at Pinnacle? You have no idea what you are in for. There is no chance the Mesaba contract would pass at Pinnacle. Outside of a few bright spots, it pretty much sucks.

Since a JCBA is a merging of the current contracts, not section 6 negotiations, I would not expect more than the best pieces of ALL our CBAs. The TA was vastly improved over your current contract, and almost passed. Now it's being merged with the high points of our contract, which will only make it better. I predict, the JCBA will pass at all the pilot groups with little to no resistance.

 

[CoATP]

...... ALL 9E posts doom and gloom?

"Beatings will continue until morale improves"

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!There is no chance the Mesaba contract would pass at Pinnacle. Outside of a few bright spots, it pretty much sucks.

OK, I'll bite. I voted for the bankruptcy LOA - because I had a gun to my head and I gambled that things would get better. They did and I feel the pilots ended up pretty good.

So tell me how our contract is so bad compared to what you have now. I mean I understand the blended FO rates are the anti-christ and our health insurance rates are awful...but there must be a few things that make the contract acceptable?

What are Pinnacle Pilots so anxious to get that so much better than we have now? Right now I am making $6 an hour more than a Pinnacle pilot in the same position and equipment.

I have been sarcastic.
But I am really tired of being called stupid and that I am going to lose my position, base, and seniority. I sincerely want to know what you have better than me. I want to know what you have NOT what you propose. That's bogus cause you've gotten nothing.

 

[dcfu69]

You know what, that's fine, I take being called over-optimistic. I would rather hear that than your screwed and we're going try to screw you some more in integration.

I've talked to my reps and I've talked with our negotiators. These are my friends... I've flown with them in both seats on 3 different airplanes, I've gotten drunk with them, I've upgraded with them, I've downgraded with them, they have never lied to me, and have no reason to. They have all told me, the negotiations are going well, and that it has been eye opening to both 9E negotiators and mgmt. in how XJ negotiators and our lawyer approach contract items. The timeline was tight (45 days does not equal 45 days at the table), and somewhat unrealistic. But they are optimistic that it will be done by the 2nd.

I will listen to my friends, my reps, over ANY 9E pilot, rep or not (sorry Higney) on how this will go down. And it is not even close to the "transfer the a/c, offer employment, JCBA failure" crap I read on these boards. Why are ALL XJ posts constructive and optimistic and ALL 9E posts doom and gloom?

MAYBE because the 9E guys are tired of being crapped on by mgmt over the years

 

[coonass]

First off this is a disclaimer(Sorry for spelling and grammer): there are two Items that bug the carp out of me right now, so bare with me.

1 Contract:
Guys lets stop the my union is better then your union. Our company sucks worst then your company. My contract is better then your contract. your going to get more out of this contract then I'am. Everybody at the three companies have receive a crap sandwich one way or another. Its time to combine the three sandwiches together and give it back to the company. This is what Pncl Crop wants the pilot groups doing is infighting with one another, Pncl Corp is trying to divide and conquer. Guys tell your union what you want and if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. Right now the pilot group has the upper hand with mgmt. You might not think so but we really do. There are many factors playing in to PNCL getting one contract DL, CO, and UA are not going to put up with PNCL not having a contract. PNCL has 33 percent of DL flying now and DL does not want another comair shut down. Lets just wait and see what the three unions can get and we go from there. If there isn't somthing you like about the contract tell your union. We have to learn to work together because we still have to go against skywest, mesa, and republic.

Seniority List:
I try not to post much about this whole 9E/XJ/(sorry I dont know colgans). I'm a guy at mesaba, so "I have a chip in the pot so to say". I know this is very hard, but can the older guys at each company start showing some since of leadership and straighten out these younger guys about this seniority ordeal. I'm really getting sick of a couple of 9E FO's guys on the shuttle in MEM making coments about senority is going to be 2 for 1 for mesaba guys or 3 for 1, by the way that was last weeks convo on the shuttle. I try to keep my mouth shut, bit my lip, and go on my merry way. Every time I fly with our FO's when they makes coments on the intergrations ordeal, I make it a point to tell them to shut there mouths in public because one its not very professional and 2 you never know who is listening. I really don't care what people say in private, but zip the lip in public because saying stupid things like seniority list right now is going to piss off the other guys and then ill will sets in. Every FO at every company needs to keep in mind, that pretty soon they will be flying with the other guys and vice of verse. I really don't think Pncl Corp wants an AWA/US Airways issue, and if they do, you can keep your shinney jet. I dont have SJS(Shinney Jet Syndrome) I'll be gald to leave the CRJ 900 for the Q400. It would be another free type rating to add to the resume.

Just remember that its not just three pilot groups combining its three cultures combining also. It helps to understand where the other guy is coming from, and if you don't understand then be a bigger person and ask to get a better understanding.