The real plan mgmt has for the future at Pinnacle

[CptMurf]

So what will xj pay rates be tomorrow after you get your snap back on

It's 4% across the board for all pay rates and all seats. I'm sure APC will get an update soon.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I am not at all intimidated. If anything even close to what you predict happens I am sure the Mesaba Union has a plan to protect us. I am confident in it. Right now I am positive cause my MEC says it's positive. When we need action...

You know maybe the Pinnacle Pilots have given up. I am really quite shocked at the lack of unity and just rolling over and letting a pilot group just get steam rolled. If I was management I would be pretty happy that the Pinnacle group is so fractured. I suspect this fact has more to do with the 5 year struggle than anything management has done.

 

[CptMurf]

I am not at all intimidated. If anything even close to what you predict happens I am sure the Mesaba Union has a plan to protect us. I am confident in it. Right now I am positive cause my MEC says it's positive. When we need action...

You know maybe the Pinnacle Pilots have given up. I am really quite shocked at the lack of unity and just rolling over and letting a pilot group just get steam rolled. If I was management I would be pretty happy that the Pinnacle group is so fractured. I suspect this fact has more to do with the 5 year struggle than anything management has done.

I agree

 

[RJLoser]

Re read flyers post. You guys/gals have not played ball with a mgt that does not play by the rules. I know this sounds threatening. You just don't get who your dealing with.

 

[i fly boxes]

Until the jcba negotiations have officially passed or failed there should be no finger pointing or wondering what's going to happen. What we need is unity. We need 9e abd xj to get along and we need colgan to join us to protect our future. I can't believe all the talk of what is going to happen when it fails. If it oases it's going to be a really good thin for all of us so lets just hope for that

 

[gojo]

Re read flyers post. You guys/gals have not played ball with a mgt that does not play by the rules. I know this sounds threatening. You just don't get who your dealing with.

As I said before, look up the word union or unity. It is the whole pilot group, not just the MEC or LEC. You guys sound pathatic by just laying down like that. There should be no reason why we can't stand strong as ONE group and acomplish or goals

 

[higney85]

As I said before, look up the word union or unity. It is the whole pilot group, not just the MEC or LEC. You guys sound pathatic by just laying down like that. There should be no reason why we can't stand strong as ONE group and acomplish or goals

I really am trying to avoid this mess and won't start an argument but I have a simple point.

Not a single pinnacle pilot has condoned a "lay down" mentality. On the contrary they have discussed (and screamed) for picketing and some have even made mention of illegal job actions (which I obviously MUST not condone). To think the Pinnacle group will lay down is NOT what is going on. If anyone has a "burn the house down mentality" you are looking at it. I cannot speak against any of my fellow pilots because if you mix facts and logic after 6 years there is a common sense realization....

This group went to the NMB last june with only 6 items and an entire week, we are simply "sitting" with the company for 3 days with 40+ items. The night after we were put on "ice" officially the company announced to us that they (as in Corp) just purchased Mesaba. This was the 2nd airline bought under Corp. This obviously was not a happy moment. Some have looked at this merger as an ability to "leapfrog" and that cannot happen by our own UNION's (as in ALPA National) Policy. I applaud the unity that XJ brings, but this group has only seen beatings and a door slammed in our face twice now by the NMB that is supposed to be the "leveler" against mgmt actions. That's in addition to multiple "deadlines" and 2 airline purchases by the holding company with no regard for the Pinnacle pilots that helped this company mature. This mgmt has embraces actions that should guarantee release, but this is political. This is not to start anything, but to set the record straight. Whether some may not like it, or the majority embrace it, we are in this together and together good things can be accomplished. USair/America west should NOT be a group we want to compare ourselves to.

Everyone involved is putting 100% into a contract.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I really am trying to avoid this mess and won't start an argument but I have a simple point.

Not a single pinnacle pilot has condoned a "lay down" mentality. On the contrary they have discussed (and screamed) for picketing and some have even made mention of illegal job actions (which I obviously MUST not condone). To think the Pinnacle group will lay down is NOT what is going on. If anyone has a "burn the house down mentality" you are looking at it. I cannot speak against any of my fellow pilots because if you mix facts and logic after 6 years there is a common sense realization....

This group went to the NMB last june with only 6 items and an entire week, we are simply "sitting" with the company for 3 days with 40+ items. The night after we were put on "ice" officially the company announced to us that they (as in Corp) just purchased Mesaba. This was the 2nd airline bought under Corp. This obviously was not a happy moment. Some have looked at this merger as an ability to "leapfrog" and that cannot happen by our own UNION's (as in ALPA National) Policy. I applaud the unity that XJ brings, but this group has only seen beatings and a door slammed in our face twice now by the NMB that is supposed to be the "leveler" against mgmt actions. That's in addition to multiple "deadlines" and 2 airline purchases by the holding company with no regard for the Pinnacle pilots that helped this company mature. This mgmt has embraces actions that should guarantee release, but this is political. This is not to start anything, but to set the record straight. Whether some may not like it, or the majority embrace it, we are in this together and together good things can be accomplished. USair/America west should NOT be a group we want to compare ourselves to.

Everyone involved is putting 100% into a contract.

I couldn't agree more. And I appreciate all the MEC's and negotiators no matter what group. We need to see what happens the next few days. I do believe that pilot pressure is nothing compared to the pressure of mainline displeasure.

We were told in our conference call last week that Delta/Continental were not happy with Pinnacle and Colgan performance. I think cost is important but if mainline wants something they get it. How quickly this TA gets done will prove to me just how unhappy our mainline partners are. That will get this mess sorted out faster than any picketing or illegal work action.

Some example at Mesaba - for many years the company refused to activate the GPS in the SAABs. NWA found out we hadn't been using it for about 10 years and they forced the issue. We got GPS. It wasn't the union - and they were really pushing for a long time. Before the AVRO's left they were actually working on CAT3 (really COOL autoland). We weren't going to do CAT2 in the CRJ's and again NWA forced the issue. Now were CAT2.

I know that what we want will have little impact but if management is really feeling pain from Delta and Continental then I expect a lot of changes. AQP, maybe different staffing models who knows. But no one at Mesaba is under any illusions that because 3 different pilot groups get together and decide what they want will make a difference.

Good luck to all of us.

 

[gojo]

Sorry, lay down was the wrong thing to say, pessimism maybe moe accurate. That I can understand after your battle. However, I feel the tone from many is that there won't be any unity for us all as one group. That was the point I was trying to make which was the majority of my post

 

[CptMurf]

I really am trying to avoid this mess and won't start an argument but I have a simple point.

Not a single pinnacle pilot has condoned a "lay down" mentality. On the contrary they have discussed (and screamed) for picketing and some have even made mention of illegal job actions (which I obviously MUST not condone). To think the Pinnacle group will lay down is NOT what is going on. If anyone has a "burn the house down mentality" you are looking at it. I cannot speak against any of my fellow pilots because if you mix facts and logic after 6 years there is a common sense realization....

This group went to the NMB last june with only 6 items and an entire week, we are simply "sitting" with the company for 3 days with 40+ items. The night after we were put on "ice" officially the company announced to us that they (as in Corp) just purchased Mesaba. This was the 2nd airline bought under Corp. This obviously was not a happy moment. Some have looked at this merger as an ability to "leapfrog" and that cannot happen by our own UNION's (as in ALPA National) Policy. I applaud the unity that XJ brings, but this group has only seen beatings and a door slammed in our face twice now by the NMB that is supposed to be the "leveler" against mgmt actions. That's in addition to multiple "deadlines" and 2 airline purchases by the holding company with no regard for the Pinnacle pilots that helped this company mature. This mgmt has embraces actions that should guarantee release, but this is political. This is not to start anything, but to set the record straight. Whether some may not like it, or the majority embrace it, we are in this together and together good things can be accomplished. USair/America west should NOT be a group we want to compare ourselves to.

Everyone involved is putting 100% into a contract.

I wouldn't doubt you were put on ICE because of the purchase. I'm sure it was shared with the NMB way before the official announcement. I also know the pain of your company purchasing another airline during negotiations. It's confusing, and totally shifts focus in negotiations.

Over the years of "the Avros are leaving" we had 5 a/c taken out of service only to be brought back 4 months later. Three domiciles being shut down shook up the seniority list. The "were getting 15 CRJs from the factory....NOT" year caused our third round of downgrades and furloughs. Then we went into a sham BK and forced to take concessions on a contract that we spent 5 years of negotiations on. Only to explode in growth for 1 1/2 years, then a massive reduction, and our fifth round of furloughs. Then we get purchased....

Our guys have felt a lot of pain over the years while 9E was expanding. During all of this though, we stuck together. Actually became a stronger group because of it. If we (all 3 groups) can come together on this, we (XJ guys) can really help out. But this infighting seems to be a 9E culture. So far I have not felt welcomed into this integration, instead I'm told how I'm screwed and that everything is going to fail. As an Ex military guy, I would tell you this lack of moral, and esprit de corp, will be our demise. I would also say the military would say the problem starts with leadership. The multiple changes in leadership and recall talk have undermined your solidarity.

Now the question is... Can we come together and succeed? I say "yes." but we must come together, or we will go nowhere.

 

[higney85]

I wouldn't doubt you were put on ICE because of the purchase. I'm sure it was shared with the NMB way before the official announcement. I also know the pain of your company purchasing another airline during negotiations. It's confusing, and totally shifts focus in negotiations.

Over the years of "the Avros are leaving" we had 5 a/c taken out of service only to be brought back 4 months later. Three domiciles being shut down shook up the seniority list. The "were getting 15 CRJs from the factory....NOT" year caused our third round of downgrades and furloughs. Then we went into a sham BK and forced to take concessions on a contract that we spent 5 years of negotiations on. Only to explode in growth for 1 1/2 years, then a massive reduction, and our fifth round of furloughs. Then we get purchased....

Our guys have felt a lot of pain over the years while 9E was expanding. During all of this though, we stuck together. Actually became a stronger group because of it. If we (all 3 groups) can come together on this, we (XJ guys) can really help out. But this infighting seems to be a 9E culture. So far I have not felt welcomed into this integration, instead I'm told how I'm screwed and that everything is going to fail. As an Ex military guy, I would tell you this lack of moral, and esprit de corp, will be our demise. I would also say the military would say the problem starts with leadership. The multiple changes in leadership and recall talk have undermined your solidarity.

Now the question is... Can we come together and succeed? I say "yes." but we must come together, or we will go nowhere.

Reread on "ice"... The night before the announcement we were first informed of the purchase, earlier that afternoon we were put on "ice". It was a 1:2 punch on the group. I never have and never will blame "ice" on the purchase, but I will say it is a contributing factor towards the current mentality of the pilots.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

I wouldn't doubt you were put on ICE because of the purchase. I'm sure it was shared with the NMB way before the official announcement. I also know the pain of your company purchasing another airline during negotiations. It's confusing, and totally shifts focus in negotiations.

Over the years of "the Avros are leaving" we had 5 a/c taken out of service only to be brought back 4 months later. Three domiciles being shut down shook up the seniority list. The "were getting 15 CRJs from the factory....NOT" year caused our third round of downgrades and furloughs. Then we went into a sham BK and forced to take concessions on a contract that we spent 5 years of negotiations on. Only to explode in growth for 1 1/2 years, then a massive reduction, and our fifth round of furloughs. Then we get purchased....

Our guys have felt a lot of pain over the years while 9E was expanding. During all of this though, we stuck together. Actually became a stronger group because of it. If we (all 3 groups) can come together on this, we (XJ guys) can really help out. But this infighting seems to be a 9E culture. So far I have not felt welcomed into this integration, instead I'm told how I'm screwed and that everything is going to fail. As an Ex military guy, I would tell you this lack of moral, and esprit de corp, will be our demise. I would also say the military would say the problem starts with leadership. The multiple changes in leadership and recall talk have undermined your solidarity.

Now the question is... Can we come together and succeed? I say "yes." but we must come together, or we will go nowhere.

I have been reading your post's and you seem to be coming to conclusions about 9E pilots based on 2-3 pilots that post here on FI, remember where you are posting for Gods Sake, you are on FLIGHTINFO.COM. What you read from a couple of Pinnacle pilots is NOT how the 98% of the MAJORITY here at 9E feel. I along with everyone I have talked to here hope that this deal gets done, and we have a fair SLI...I personally am sorry that you have not felt welcomed in this "integration", but please stop putting all of us 9E pilots in the same group as the two or three that are outspoken on FI..

 

[bri5150]

I have been reading your post's and you seem to be coming to conclusions about 9E pilots based on 2-3 pilots that post here on FI, remember where you are posting for Gods Sake, you are on FLIGHTINFO.COM. What you read from a couple of Pinnacle pilots is NOT how the 98% of the MAJORITY here at 9E feel. I along with everyone I have talked to here hope that this deal gets done, and we have a fair SLI...I personally am sorry that you have not felt welcomed in this "integration", but please stop putting all of us 9E pilots in the same group as the two or three that are outspoken on FI..

Nope, I have talked to probably a total of 2 other Pinnacle pilots in real life. They are the exact same way. You are screwed, that's all I hear.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Nope, I have talked to probably a total of 2 other Pinnacle pilots in real life. They are the exact same way. You are screwed, that's all I hear.

I think your full of sh!t too...

 

[bri5150]

I think your full of sh!t too...

You can think what you want, but it's the truth.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

You can think what you want, but it's the truth.

Well, if its true and you believe them, than you are just as stupid as they are!!

 

[CptMurf]

I have been reading your post's and you seem to be coming to conclusions about 9E pilots based on 2-3 pilots that post here on FI, remember where you are posting for Gods Sake, you are on FLIGHTINFO.COM. What you read from a couple of Pinnacle pilots is NOT how the 98% of the MAJORITY here at 9E feel. I along with everyone I have talked to here hope that this deal gets done, and we have a fair SLI...I personally am sorry that you have not felt welcomed in this "integration", but please stop putting all of us 9E pilots in the same group as the two or three that are outspoken on FI..

If I was only getting the info from FI you would be correct. Unfortunately, I've heard it from friends at Comair that have carried 9E pilots, I've heard it directly on the crew bus in MEM, and I've had a VERY brazen FO try to spew this type of info on a hour long commute to MEM. Im sure it is not everyones feeling over there, but the majority of the people I have had some sort of communications with, has had a negative comment of this asset transfer.

I will give cudos though to 1 9E FO, who bought my coffee at Starbucks. After a short conversation, he offered to buy mine, and stated that no one else is going to bring this company together, so we better do it ourselves. I told him that his gesture was appreciated, but let me buy both instead. He refused, and paid for both. If I ever see him again, I'm buying lunch.... Beer if it's on an overnight.

 

[bri5150]

Well, if its true and you believe them, than you are just as stupid as they are!!

Where did I say I believed them? I am just telling you that there is nothing but negativity and anger directed at the Mesaba pilots from the Pinnacle pilots. And now there is another example right here.

 

[Simon Says]

Ok, here is my 2 cents from a long time Mesaba guy.

First off, Pinnacle has not layed down or failed in the fight. Remember they voted down a TA after 5 years of negotiations. If they layed down that TA would of passed.

Second, Pinnacle management group is not tougher, meaner, more devious than Mesaba's management group. Pinnacle management group is just different. They have different tactics and strategies.

Third, more than half of our list (which is a May 07 hire date) has not seen any sort of negotations before. Our list holds 1107 pilots, more than 550 pilots are 3 years or less and have not seen as much as they have heard on the line. So if you are one of those pilots throwing stones at the 9E guys....please stop. Quite frankly you don't have a right.

Fourth, If we can work all this out I look forward to flying with my fellow Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Colgan brothers and sisters. Please stop the hate and focus on moving forward and not on "whose fault it is"

 

[i fly boxes]

Ok, here is my 2 cents from a long time Mesaba guy.

First off, Pinnacle has not layed down or failed in the fight. Remember they voted down a TA after 5 years of negotiations. If they layed down that TA would of passed.

Second, Pinnacle management group is not tougher, meaner, more devious than Mesaba's management group. Pinnacle management group is just different. They have different tactics and strategies.

Third, more than half of our list (which is a May 07 hire date) has not seen any sort of negotations before. Our list holds 1107 pilots, more than 550 pilots are 3 years or less and have not seen as much as they have heard on the line. So if you are one of those pilots throwing stones at the 9E guys....please stop. Quite frankly you don't have a right.

Fourth, If we can work all this out I look forward to flying with my fellow Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Colgan brothers and sisters. Please stop the hate and focus on moving forward and not on "whose fault it is"

That is the best post about this matter i have seen since the day of the purchase. You are 100% dead right. I hope somehow we get some good news tomorrow. If not, then we will deal with what ever comes next.