The real plan mgmt has for the future at Pinnacle

[Smarta$$]

Ya, and you guys would let them. Seriously grow a pair, and stop waving the white flag!!!

Mesaba guys are perfectly content sitting back and giving management all the time they need to let their plan play out. No rush. Now, is it the plan that they are expecting????

Then, they will complain the Pinnacle pilots didn't do more.

 

[gojo]

I would say almost six years without a new contract is sitting back. How long has mesaba been involved in the negotiations, about 3 months or so? I remember our negotiations during our sham bankruptcy, which BTW wouldn't have been necessary if there wern't a few bottom feeders out there. Anyway, it wasn't a fun time either, but we had a contract relatively quick as compared to your six years of B.S. We were allowed very little latitude because our company was in bankruptcy. We couldn't strike. Now maybe I shouldn't have said what I said in my previous post. I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I never really wanted to, but here we are now, together in this mess. And I think we should find a way to make this work as a group. I get tired of listening to all the pessimistic comments. As I said, I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I don't know P.T. or anyone else in management so if it turns out your right I will gladly accept an I told you so over a beer (on me). I hope I'm wrong

 

[CptMurf]

3 months?!? Us XJ guys let it last that long? We need to STFD now!! These 9E guys have waited for a contract too long, and us waiting one more day is too long. Our negotiators don't know what we're in for. This mgmt. team is different than what we have dealt with in the past, they will lie and stall. We are weak by even negotiating with them.

Did I miss anything SmartA$$? (It's getting old.)

 

[Smarta$$]

I would say almost six years without a new contract is sitting back. How long has mesaba been involved in the negotiations, about 3 months or so? I remember our negotiations during our sham bankruptcy, which BTW wouldn't have been necessary if there wern't a few bottom feeders out there. Anyway, it wasn't a fun time either, but we had a contract relatively quick as compared to your six years of B.S. We were allowed very little latitude because our company was in bankruptcy. We couldn't strike. Now maybe I shouldn't have said what I said in my previous post. I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I never really wanted to, but here we are now, together in this mess. And I think we should find a way to make this work as a group. I get tired of listening to all the pessimistic comments. As I said, I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I don't know P.T. or anyone else in management so if it turns out your right I will gladly accept an I told you so over a beer (on me). I hope I'm wrong

Look, the extent of mesaba's participation in this negotiating process (besides committee work) is to show up prepared for negotiations. The rank and file do nothing at all. Now, that is EXACTLY what we have done for 6 years. Why would you expect a different outcome or characterize our sitting back any different than your sitting back.

I have nothing against you, but want to point out that doing the same thing we have been doing for 6 years is no strategy at all. Frankly, leaderships hands are tied by the pro-corporate laws of this nation, but the rank and file are free to make INDEPENDANT decisions about how safe to operate their aircraft.

Hoping this works out for all of us, skeptical based on history and observation.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

This is what I see happening if management doesn't get a contract in the very near future...Delta and Continental/United start canceling contracts and giving the flying to Skywest and XJT. Colgan will become a large discount Q400 sales lots. Board of directors gets fired cause the stock crashes to .25

If Pinnacle starts shifting the planes and pilots from Mesaba, the scope provisions in our contract will be broken. I BELIEVE the RLA has provisions for this. Negotiations and 30 day cooling off periods won't apply and I think we could strike.

Pinnacle Corp can't afford to let this negotiation take very much longer. Soon it will be cheaper to just give us what we want. I could be wrong but if Colgan is Junior Manning 126 times a month and trying for more how many flights are going out on time? If Pinnacle is still understaffed whats going to happen when all of you start timing out the 12th of December?

I think that Pinnacle Corps only action is to start showing a level of stability. Granted even if the contract is agreed to in December, little can be done to correct the staffing issues in 3 weeks. But if Management can go to the mainline carriers and say there getting the house in order and have a plan to eliminate the problems within "X" amount of time, I think we all win.

 

[Smarta$$]

3 months?!? Us XJ guys let it last that long? We need to STFD now!! These 9E guys have waited for a contract too long, and us waiting one more day is too long. Our negotiators don't know what we're in for. This mgmt. team is different than what we have dealt with in the past, they will lie and stall. We are weak by even negotiating with them.

Did I miss anything SmartA$$? (It's getting old.)

Prove to me you have an effective, active strategy besides just showing up prepared to negotiate. Frankly, if this does work out it will be because of a legitimate business need and will have NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the XJ MEC, who has done nothing wrong, but who has done nothing at all different than our MEC has done for YEARS. So far you have contributed nothing more than committee work and strategy brainstorming, of which I challenge you to reveal ANYTHING your MEC has suggested that was innovative or original. Something effective that was not tried or suggested before???? Anything besides showing up prepared????

Its getting old hearing how you guys know how to handle these situations, when it turns out you handle them the same way we do. You have proven to be no more than the wet noodle that Pinnacle pilots have always been.

 

[bri5150]

Prove to me you have an effective, active strategy besides just showing up prepared to negotiate. Frankly, if this does work out it will be because of a legitimate business need and will have NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the XJ MEC, who has done nothing wrong, but who has done nothing at all different than our MEC has done for YEARS. So far you have contributed nothing more than committee work and strategy brainstorming, of which I challenge you to reveal ANYTHING your MEC has suggested that was innovative or original. Something effective that was not tried or suggested before???? Anything besides showing up prepared????

Its getting old hearing how you guys know how to handle these situations, when it turns out you handle them the same way we do. You have proven to be no more than the wet noodle that Pinnacle pilots have always been.

I can't believe I am jumping in on this again. The amount of time worked on THIS contract (not YOUR contract) has been 3 months. What the hell do you want man? What has YOUR MEC come up with that is original? Has your MEC even showed up prepared? How are Mesaba pilots a wet noodle? Our union spent millions of dollars in bankrupty fighting our company that wanted to just impose a contract. From what I know, in 2004, operations were actually shut down for a night just before management gave us a contract. What has Pinnacle done? Stop attacking us. WE ARE NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!!! There will be a time in which it will make sense to burn the place down if we don't get a contract. When there is momentum in negotiations, things are actually getting done, and we are getting most of what we are asking for, I don't think that's a good time to burn it down. Have you even heard about what has been TA'ed? I honestly haven't heard one thing that isn't the same as, or an improvement on our current book. I would imagine it would be even better for you considering your current contract.

 

[Smarta$$]

You missed the point entirely. Try rereading it again.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

You missed the point entirely. Try rereading it again.

I have reread what you wrote.
We don't have to prove anything to you. I frankly don't care what you think about our MEC. Except for 3 things our current contract is so beyond what you have that I am worried you guys will accept less thus giving me a paycut. Which is something I will not accept.

Who knows what will happen if something doesn't get signed in the next 3 days of negotiations. My union is hopeful. I will go with that.

 

[RJLoser]

I think what smarta** is saying is that your time is running short. I think these joint negotiations may be a dog a pony show. I think XJ's ship may have already sailed by the end of the week. What XJ does not understand is that PCL mgt is going to do exactly what their business model dictates. This has been successful for them.

 

[gojo]

Well when Pinnacle holdings bought us, they also bought our contract. I'm pretty sure since we are not in section six and our contract is willfully violated that we can strike imediatly. How would that go for Pinnacle? It would not be in anyones best interest to not settle this with one contract and one list

 

[CptMurf]

Do the 9E guys get the same number / same quality updates from their negotiators and MEC that we do? Because everything I have heard from our guys has said the deal is close. Not done, and there is still a lot of work to do in some sections. But they ALL seem very encouraging of the process so far and optimistic that the TA will be coming soon. This may sound like koolaid, but I have never caught our union lying to us over my 12 years here. Defiantly not the doom and gloom some of the 9E guys propagate here.

Then again, maybe they just aren't listening to their reps.

 

[DoinTime]

Well when Pinnacle holdings bought us, they also bought our contract. I'm pretty sure since we are not in section six and our contract is willfully violated that we can strike imediatly. How would that go for Pinnacle?

Nope...You're completely wrong about that. I've not heard that anything Pinnacle Corp has planned would violate your agreement anyway. Am I missing something? They will transfer the XJ jets to Pinnacle and they will offer employment to the dislocated pilots. Seniority integration terms will be up to ALPA, not the company.

 

[higney85]

Do the 9E guys get the same number / same quality updates from their negotiators and MEC that we do? Because everything I have heard from our guys has said the deal is close. Not done, and there is still a lot of work to do in some sections. But they ALL seem very encouraging of the process so far and optimistic that the TA will be coming soon. This may sound like koolaid, but I have never caught our union lying to us over my 12 years here. Defiantly not the doom and gloom some of the 9E guys propagate here.

Then again, maybe they just aren't listening to their reps.

Not to ruffle feathers... But the Pinnacle pilots know that over 40 issues still remain for a JCBA. The 9E pilots went on ice back in late June trying to finish up our last six (6). This info and a laundry list of those items in broad strokes has been emailed to all the pilots as of about a week ago.

 

[gojo]

I should know better than to listen to some poeple. I just got done talking to a 9E FO and he was saying that the plan was to move the planes to the 9E cert. and staple us on the bottom as FO's at new hire or 2nd year pay. That would be a pretty big violation. I'm not sure why I let it get to me?