The real plan mgmt has for the future at Pinnacle

[altimaklr]

Keep negotiations going during the holidays to avoid a messy picket and work slow-down

In January, JCBA will fail and break down, 9E ALPA will be offered TA2 w/ slightly better health care and 10M signing bonus as an "interim" solution, it gets voted in

After the holidays are over and training catches up, XJ jets start moving to 9E certificate, starting with the CRJ200's

XJ pilots are given two impossible options - Move to EWR/IAH and fly the Q400 on the horrible Colgan contract, or go to 9E at zero seniority, 2nd year pay

XJ pilots sue, but Pinnacle mgmt stalls for years

By the time XJ pilot win in court, most XJ pilots will be gone and moved on. Company will have saved more $$ than they lose in any court judgement

9E mgmt stonewalls Colgan ALPA for years, 9E pilots work under their "interim" contract for another 10 years

 

[Raoul Duke]

The 3rd option is to offer a contract that is so good that PNCL mgt can't pass it up and make up for it with a big up front bonus. Tie the whole thing up for a couple of years to give everyone enought time to move on.

 

[CptMurf]

Keep negotiations going during the holidays to avoid a messy picket and work slow-down

In January, JCBA will fail and break down, 9E ALPA will be offered TA2 w/ slightly better health care and 10M signing bonus as an "interim" solution, it gets voted in

After the holidays are over and training catches up, XJ jets start moving to 9E certificate, starting with the CRJ200's

XJ pilots are given two impossible options - Move to EWR/IAH and fly the Q400 on the horrible Colgan contract, or go to 9E at zero seniority, 2nd year pay

XJ pilots sue, but Pinnacle mgmt stalls for years

By the time XJ pilot win in court, most XJ pilots will be gone and moved on. Company will have saved more $$ than they lose in any court judgement

9E mgmt stonewalls Colgan ALPA for years, 9E pilots work under their "interim" contract for another 10 years

Living in a fantasy world I see.

 

[Speedtape]

You have to have big Kahonas to get a contract. Othewise, negotiate another 5 years.

 

[RJLoser]

I have heard this from several sources. I know one thing for absolute certain...PCL mgt will do anything ANYTHING to keep costs down.

 

[1.3XVso]

On a serious note. I hope that this event will sprinkle some magic powder in our pilot groups balls sack and do something for once.

 

[redflyer65]

Guys, I hate to tell you this but Altimaklr is more right that he is wrong.

I have been predicting that PCL management will do whatever they what to do regarding moving aircraft and personel. The will simply give the union the finger and continue as they always have. Management will simply say 'sue us' in response. The union will, and it will drag out for years.

Don't believe me? How well did the scope arguement last when PCL bought Colgan? Management just does what they want at PCL, get used to it.

This whole thing about a JCBA is smoke and mirrors, just like the last 5 years. I always thought the PCL negotiatiors didn't know what they were doing, but in the end they have "Hosed" the union AT EVERY SINGLE TURN. It's been embarrasing.

 

[redflyer65]

PCL mgt will do anything ANYTHING to keep costs down.

Bingo.

This is how they have operated since the contract was inked in 1999. For over 11 years Pinnacle management has been arguing what the definition of 'is' is in the contract....and winning!

D.W., the magician. He could tour with Cris Angel, except he probably couldn't levitate.

 

[xjhawk]

So I take it the author of this thread is an FO at 9E looking for an upgrade to a Mesaba 900? From day one the selfish and childish ones at 9E have stated the transfer of Mesaba jets and little more than a staple for their pilots is an option. Get this people, 9E is short pilots now, guess what would happen if they attempted to cancel our (Mesaba) contract and dump our earned senirity? Yes many of us would leave or stop its operations. So they would again be in more of a HURT for pilots when the future tells us that regional airlines will be struggling for pilots with the new work rules and hiring criteria. So there you have it, many of us at XJ only want our contract and work rules and guess what that would mean for you 9E and colgan pilots? Yes that is right, a bug pay raise and a lot better work rules. Oh yeah and what else do we want? Fair and reasonable SLI. And what do some of you always hint at? screwing us over and dumping our seniority to behind your most Jr pilots. Guess what, if we do get that asset transfer all you idiots (just the idiots, not the good 9E guys and gals) want, and we are screwed on our SLI 9E will be in a HURt for pilots.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Bingo.


D.W., the magician. He could tour with Cris Angel, except he probably couldn't levitate.

LOL!!!! Yeah, the only thing that levitates on D.W. body is his hand stuffing his fat face.

 

[Mel Sharples]

After the holidays are over and training catches up, XJ jets start moving to 9E certificate, starting with the CRJ200's

XJ pilots are given two impossible options - Move to EWR/IAH and fly the Q400 on the horrible Colgan contract, or go to 9E at zero seniority, 2nd year pay

The XJ contract isn't going anywhere. Colgan's operation is being absorbed by XJ as the Colgan flying is going on the XJ certificate. So even in your "worst case" scenario, those planes would be flown at the current XJ rates. There is no "horrible Colgan contract" because they don't have a contract.

The XJ CRJs are going to Pinnacle. Our contract says the pilots go with the planes. Sure, they could try and staple but I guarantee you they would find themselves with a huge pilot shortage overnight as none of the XJ pilots would show up for work.

There is a lot left to be played out to this but Pinnacle management doesn't hold nearly as good a hand as you may think they do.

 

[DoinTime]

The XJ contract isn't going anywhere. Colgan's operation is being absorbed by XJ as the Colgan flying is going on the XJ certificate. So even in your "worst case" scenario, those planes would be flown at the current XJ rates. There is no "horrible Colgan contract" because they don't have a contract.

The XJ CRJs are going to Pinnacle. Our contract says the pilots go with the planes. Sure, they could try and staple but I guarantee you they would find themselves with a huge pilot shortage overnight as none of the XJ pilots would show up for work.

There is a lot left to be played out to this but Pinnacle management doesn't hold nearly as good a hand as you may think they do.

I think the most likely thing that you will see if this blows up is that PNCL halts moving anything anywhere. All mergers and fragmentations called off. Pinnacle and Colgan pilots will return to their age old plights and Mesaba will go about what they had planned prior to the acquisition with the removal of the Saabs. In the end, Pinnacle and Colgan still wont have a contract and Mesaba will have 400-500 furloughs with the most junior CA at the 10 year mark.

That would adequately suck for everyone....thats really Pinnacle's style.

 

[CiFIknow]

I feel bad for the XJ guys. Such a long history...gone. Sucks.

 

[redflyer65]

I see it going more like this if the TA doesn't work..

PCL management moves the airframes wherever they like and tells the ALPA team to stick it, Mesaba was bought by a holding company NOT an airline.

Let the lawsuits begin, but in the meantime Pinnacle keeps on keeping on..

This could get real ugly fast.

RF

 

[gojo]

Ya, and you guys would let them. Seriously grow a pair, and stop waving the white flag!!!

 

[Smarta$$]

Ya, and you guys would let them. Seriously grow a pair, and stop waving the white flag!!!

Mesaba guys are perfectly content sitting back and giving management all the time they need to let their plan play out. No rush. Now, is it the plan that they are expecting????

Then, they will complain the Pinnacle pilots didn't do more.

 

[gojo]

I would say almost six years without a new contract is sitting back. How long has mesaba been involved in the negotiations, about 3 months or so? I remember our negotiations during our sham bankruptcy, which BTW wouldn't have been necessary if there wern't a few bottom feeders out there. Anyway, it wasn't a fun time either, but we had a contract relatively quick as compared to your six years of B.S. We were allowed very little latitude because our company was in bankruptcy. We couldn't strike. Now maybe I shouldn't have said what I said in my previous post. I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I never really wanted to, but here we are now, together in this mess. And I think we should find a way to make this work as a group. I get tired of listening to all the pessimistic comments. As I said, I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I don't know P.T. or anyone else in management so if it turns out your right I will gladly accept an I told you so over a beer (on me). I hope I'm wrong

 

[CptMurf]

3 months?!? Us XJ guys let it last that long? We need to STFD now!! These 9E guys have waited for a contract too long, and us waiting one more day is too long. Our negotiators don't know what we're in for. This mgmt. team is different than what we have dealt with in the past, they will lie and stall. We are weak by even negotiating with them.

Did I miss anything SmartA$$? (It's getting old.)

 

[Smarta$$]

I would say almost six years without a new contract is sitting back. How long has mesaba been involved in the negotiations, about 3 months or so? I remember our negotiations during our sham bankruptcy, which BTW wouldn't have been necessary if there wern't a few bottom feeders out there. Anyway, it wasn't a fun time either, but we had a contract relatively quick as compared to your six years of B.S. We were allowed very little latitude because our company was in bankruptcy. We couldn't strike. Now maybe I shouldn't have said what I said in my previous post. I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I never really wanted to, but here we are now, together in this mess. And I think we should find a way to make this work as a group. I get tired of listening to all the pessimistic comments. As I said, I haven't worked for Pinnacle, I don't know P.T. or anyone else in management so if it turns out your right I will gladly accept an I told you so over a beer (on me). I hope I'm wrong

Look, the extent of mesaba's participation in this negotiating process (besides committee work) is to show up prepared for negotiations. The rank and file do nothing at all. Now, that is EXACTLY what we have done for 6 years. Why would you expect a different outcome or characterize our sitting back any different than your sitting back.

I have nothing against you, but want to point out that doing the same thing we have been doing for 6 years is no strategy at all. Frankly, leaderships hands are tied by the pro-corporate laws of this nation, but the rank and file are free to make INDEPENDANT decisions about how safe to operate their aircraft.

Hoping this works out for all of us, skeptical based on history and observation.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

This is what I see happening if management doesn't get a contract in the very near future...Delta and Continental/United start canceling contracts and giving the flying to Skywest and XJT. Colgan will become a large discount Q400 sales lots. Board of directors gets fired cause the stock crashes to .25

If Pinnacle starts shifting the planes and pilots from Mesaba, the scope provisions in our contract will be broken. I BELIEVE the RLA has provisions for this. Negotiations and 30 day cooling off periods won't apply and I think we could strike.

Pinnacle Corp can't afford to let this negotiation take very much longer. Soon it will be cheaper to just give us what we want. I could be wrong but if Colgan is Junior Manning 126 times a month and trying for more how many flights are going out on time? If Pinnacle is still understaffed whats going to happen when all of you start timing out the 12th of December?

I think that Pinnacle Corps only action is to start showing a level of stability. Granted even if the contract is agreed to in December, little can be done to correct the staffing issues in 3 weeks. But if Management can go to the mainline carriers and say there getting the house in order and have a plan to eliminate the problems within "X" amount of time, I think we all win.