"The New ATA"

[ATA717Pilot]

Recently released info re: our restructuring plans under the AAI-ATA deal:

COMPANY BRIEFING

While much of the Company's presentation was confidential, Management outlined its proposed fleet restructuring assuming the bankruptcy court approves the AirTran transaction. Details of the AirTran deal include:

* ATA would initially operate 12 737-800s for AirTran under a wet lease with staggered retirements through June 2005.
* ATA would continue to operate the Midway station for AirTran under a phase-out schedule to be determined.
* ATA would handle AirTran at other stations and the two airlines would have a codeshare agreement
* Preferential interviews would be offered.

THE NEW ATA

As outlined by management, the new ATA would be approximately half the size of the current airline, but the Company hopes it would still generate two-thirds of the current revenue. While the Company has until the end of January to develop its business plan, the current thinking, subject to change, is this:

* A fleet of 32-33 aircraft: 3 757-300s, 14 757-200s, 11 737-800s and 4-5 L-1011s.
* 4-5 L-1011s and 6 757-200s would be dedicated to military charter operations.
* Hawaiian operations would be expanded using 8 757-200 aircraft.
* Indianapolis operations would be expanded using 8 737-800 aircraft.
* Feeder operations would be expanded, with Chicago Express operating 6 Saab 340s and 15 new 50- to 70-seat regional jets. The Company is also exploring possibilities with other regional jet entities.
* Furloughs: 400-500 cockpit crewmembers would be retained, with 600-700 crewmembers being furloughed.
* 900-950 flight attendants would be retained, with 900-950 being furloughed.
* Furloughs would begin in January, and continue over a six-month period.
* The Company would agree to offer preferential interviews to furloughed flight crew members who would want to move to the regional jet.

CONCESSIONARY REQUEST

Following the financial briefing, the Company presented to the Negotiating Committee a concessionary proposal totaling $35 million. The concessions would come in five areas, including benefits and insurance; scheduling; operating efficiency; administrative savings; and compensation and expenses.

 

[Pickle]

This blows. I will be furloughed and then maybe the company, the company for which I have been working for over 5 years, the company that will be furloughing me, will give me a preferential interview to fly an RJ. A pref interview? Heck, that is not anything more than Air Tran is offering. Well, except that I don't have to live in Chicago to get the pref interview from my current employer.

Oh, oh, I know. The pref interviews with the "new" ATA will only be offered to those who live in Indy.

As far as concessions go.... The remaining 400-500 can concede away all they want. Until then, I say we politely listen to what they have to say and then politely tell them "No".

 

[JumpJetter]

THE NEW ATA
...with 900-950 being furloughed.
* Furloughs would begin in January, and continue over a six-month period.
...

...dang....this industry sucks....

 

[Xdriver]

Yes it does suck!

 

[ATA73Pilot]

* The Company would agree to offer preferential interviews to furloughed flight crew members who would want to move to the regional jet.

I can just see it now...

Interviewer: I can see from your application and resume that you have 7 years experience in both domestic and international operations for ATA. Type rated International Relief Officer in the 757 and experience in the 737-800.

Fantastic!

Now tell me in your own words why we should hire you to work at C8?

Me: Uhhhh.......hmmm.......could you please repeat the question?

 

[pilotyip]

What is the other option to this form of sucking?

 

[jettypeguy]

...dang....this industry sucks....

Jumpjetter that 900-950 is FA's, the pilot numbers are 400-500..but yeah it still sucks....

 

[flynlow]

Jumpjetter that 900-950 is FA's, the pilot numbers are 400-500..but yeah it still sucks....

Actualy the pilot furlough numbers are 600-700 but what are few hundred more pilots on the street.

 

[vclean]

.
* Feeder operations would be expanded, with Chicago Express operating 6 Saab 340s and 15 new 50- to 70-seat regional jets. The Company is also exploring possibilities with other regional jet entities.

Chicago Express operates 17 Saabs. If these numbers are accurate, it only represents an increase of 4 aircraft. Not a lot of opportunities for several hundred furloughs. I imagine if an ATA pilot was hired at C8 as a f/o, they would start in the Saab, as the RJs would probaby be fairly senior.

 

[Cactus73]

I wouldn't get too worried yet.

ATA management wants the AAI deal because they want the cash and they don't want to give up their airline to someone else. Some of it may be ego driven, not what is best for the employees.

It seems likely AWA will make an offer for all of ATA by the December 10 deadline. For ATA management it is a bad deal. They don't get any cash and most of them lose their jobs. Their airline also goes away.

If I were an ATA pilot I would be hoping for an AWA deal. This board seems to be focused on SWA, jetblue, and Air Train giving you the saving grace for your jobs, but you are probably best off with AWA.

Now, as an AWA pilot I'm worried about the deal from a seniority position, but I'm excited about it for AWA's long term future.

 

[Pickle]

Cactus73:

This board notwithstanding, public (read ATA pilot group) opinion is very much in AWAs favor. This message board is such a miniscule sampling; it is, as you know, in no way any kind of legitimate cross section of the airline industry.

At any rate, on our union website, and on the line, in the crew room, etc etc etc the majority are pulling for AWA to come in and take the company.

 

[TWA Dude]

What horrible, rotten news! Bad enough being furloughed but to be getting it a second time for many is just depressing.

I still have many doubts that any AWA/ATA thing will go through but if only to protect all our jobs I'm in favor of it. Good luck, my friends.

 

[propjob27]

Cactus:

I'll second what Pickle said (not that it needs it). In general, the only deal that ATA pilots want to go through is the America West deal.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Yeah this reinforces my thoughts on NEVER going to the airlines. I'm sorry for you guys at ATA. I guess the market will once again be flooded. At least some of you might be able to get on at UPS or SWA??? Good luck guys.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

In general, the only deal that ATA pilots want to go through is the America West deal.

Why? Because you all are betting (clinging to a hope, more likely) that a "deal' with AWA will allow you to keep your seniority and seamlessly be integrated into their list by DOH?

Dream on, "Brothers". AWA pilots will absolutely, POSITIVELY do what is best for them, and a message from their MEC chairman said as much. I can't say that I blame them. If I were an AWA pilot, I would want my MEC looking out for me instead of some failing company's pilot group.

While I most definitely sympathize with the ATA pilots and hope they come out of this with something positve, I really don't see a deal with ANY carrier that will protect everything that you have worked at ATA to achieve. That boat is sinking, and to expect another company to come in and save the day, especially at the expense of even one of their pilots, is unrealistic to say the least, and simply isn't going to happen. No matter how hard you wish and hope and believe that it is.

 

[TWA Dude]

Because you all are betting (clinging to a hope, more likely) that a "deal' with AWA will allow you to keep your seniority and seamlessly be integrated into their list by DOH?

Well, considering that an AWA offer is the only one that will include pilots I can understand them being in favor of it. Priority One: save job. Priority Two: save seniority. They have their priorities straight.

 

[xanderman]

Why? Because you all are betting (clinging to a hope, more likely) that a "deal' with AWA will allow you to keep your seniority and seamlessly be integrated into their list by DOH?

Dream on, "Brothers". AWA pilots will absolutely, POSITIVELY do what is best for them, and a message from their MEC chairman said as much. I can't say that I blame them. If I were an AWA pilot, I would want my MEC looking out for me instead of some failing company's pilot group.

While I most definitely sympathize with the ATA pilots and hope they come out of this with something positve, I really don't see a deal with ANY carrier that will protect everything that you have worked at ATA to achieve. That boat is sinking, and to expect another company to come in and save the day, especially at the expense of even one of their pilots, is unrealistic to say the least, and simply isn't going to happen. No matter how hard you wish and hope and believe that it is.

That's a pretty negative spin on it. Yes you are right the AWA MEC will look out for AWA pilots. As they should! But I believe the responses from the ATA guys were to point out that it is the best possible scenario. Yes it sucks for them but it is better than a preferential interview or the street. Just my opinion. I sincerely hope that the ATA folks get the best possible outcome no matter what that may be...
Andy

 

[jettypeguy]

I would rather be stapled to the bottom at a AWA than have to interview for a position at C8....

 

[flyhard]

Why? Because you all are betting (clinging to a hope, more likely) that a "deal' with AWA will allow you to keep your seniority and seamlessly be integrated into their list by DOH?

Dream on, "Brothers". AWA pilots will absolutely, POSITIVELY do what is best for them, and a message from their MEC chairman said as much. I can't say that I blame them. If I were an AWA pilot, I would want my MEC looking out for me instead of some failing company's pilot group.

While I most definitely sympathize with the ATA pilots and hope they come out of this with something positve, I really don't see a deal with ANY carrier that will protect everything that you have worked at ATA to achieve. That boat is sinking, and to expect another company to come in and save the day, especially at the expense of even one of their pilots, is unrealistic to say the least, and simply isn't going to happen. No matter how hard you wish and hope and believe that it is.

Uh I don't think I have read any ATA pilot say anything about wanting a seamless DOH integration. You seem to be some crusty old fart that has a bad attitude about everything you talk about. The only thing that our pilot group wants is to be treated with respect. Hopefully you will not bring your current company down with your "realistic" look on things fargindooshbag.

 

[Pickle]

Yes, FarginDooshbahg, the AWA pilot group will do what is best for them. However, they also have said that they are looking at an integration of some sorts, as opposed to "preferential interviews".

We are not clinging to anything. We are simply being realistic.