The NetJets Scab list threat...

[Starman]

Rusty,

Rather than beating your chest on a message board, you should brush up on the single carrier protections built into the Railway Labor Act. Regardless if you and your fellow stooges want a union or not, it's coming your way. You're going to be placed on the NJA seniority list. The only question left is whether you get placed on it through Netjets negotiations with the teamsters or via a judge ordering it. I'd normally suggest the negotiation route but Santulli might just offer you guys up in sacrifice for something he doesn't want to give up. Good career move either way. Can you say "Roger - Gear Up"?

 

[Dangerkitty]

Rusty,

Rather than beating your chest on a message board, you should brush up on the single carrier protections built into the Railway Labor Act. Regardless if you and your fellow stooges want a union or not, it's coming your way. You're going to be placed on the NJA seniority list. The only question left is whether you get placed on it through Netjets negotiations with the teamsters or via a judge ordering it. I'd normally suggest the negotiation route but Santulli might just offer you guys up in sacrifice for something he doesn't want to give up. Good career move either way. Can you say "Roger - Gear Up"?

Oh boy, now its going to get ugly!

 

[Sctt@NJA]

http://www.netjets.com/Fleet/Aircraft_Details.asp

Yeah nothing like the same company at all. Completely different. They have nothing to do with one another.

The union has no more right to your airplanes than they do to some strange company called "NetJets Large Aircraft Company".

Sarcasm off now. If its a Netjets fractional airplane and its US registered its ours. Or will be shortly.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Actually, Management saved a space for the G-IV's in the TA that failed last Fall. There were 6 pay categories. Category V was reserved for the G's. They insisted on this and we had nothing to do with it. II, III, IV, and VI included the aircraft we operate now and category I was for VLJ's which may be operated in the future.

My suspicion is that it is the plan of management to merge the companies. The union is falling for the trick of suing for single carrier thereby achieving management's goals and giving them deniability to the fact that this is what they wanted anyway.

Oh and I forgot... they also had this merger language with seniority integration they insisted on putting in the TA.

 

[realityman]

I think this thread should probably be allowed to die a semi-peaceful death, while it still can.
Here's the long and short of it: What we're doing at Netjets has never been done before. Can anyone remember or name a time when a group of pilots, flying private jets, considered or actually went on strike? This is virgin territory. And it's outcome could set precedent for the entire industry (well, for fractionals, and possibly charters. Probably doesn't mean much to pure corporate operators).
Whether you like NJA or hate it, or are somewhere in between, wouldn't it be nice to see a section of the industry set the bar HIGHER, rather than the direction it's been going for most of the rest of flying? It seems like most of you are routing for the pilots at NJA, and I for one am grateful for the support from folks outside the fractionals.
As for the scab thing, which is what this thread started about, please don't let the attitudes of a few overly emotional pilots make you think that's how ALL NJA pilots feel. As I mentioned before, this is brand new territory we're exploring here. Our union leadership has in no way shape or form, told us who or what would constitute a scab or scabbing. I think I can say, with at least some confidence, that charter operators who fly our clients in the event of a strike would NOT be labeled as scabs. It just doesn't fit the definition. Unless you actually came in and flew our planes. Also, I flew for a charter operator for many years. And I can tell you beyond a doubt that I can't remember a single flight where I, as the pilot, had any idea who had chartered our plane (the passenger, a selloff from another company, a business, etc....), therefore I can't imagine how our pilots or union would be able to determine if NJA had called the charter in or if the client had chartered directly. To label the pilots of those planes as scabs would be ridiculous. And most of our pilots are level-headed enough to realize this. Personally, I'm not too worried about it because there simply isn't enough uplift capacity out there to handle all our flights on any given day, unless the charter companies are willing to ignore their own regular clients entirely.
The only thing I would ask of everyone on this board, although it may seem like they don't deserve it, is to cut the emotional guys a little slack. Please keep in mind that we've been trying for a contract for almost 4 years now. Frustration levels are extremely high. Dumped on by management, practically sold out by our last MEC, co-pilots on food stamps, we are now FINALLY at a point where we're DOING something about it. Tempers are running high,and these types of message boards seem to be the place where folks come to vent. Please don't judge our pilots based on the harsh remarks of a few who seem to be more frustrated than most. I think most of our pilots aren't ready to generalize like that, and appreciate the support.

Finally, I feel the need to comment on one person who has posted recently. Rusty, I gotta tell you, I have only the utmost respect for NJI pilots. You guys have bailed me out of a tough situation on several occasions. I have friends who fly there. I've had one of your pilots ask me to join him and his crew for dinner, and he paid. And as for the single carrier thing, well, I could care less. I flew Gulfstreams for my last company, and truly, they aren't any big deal. A big, stable, easy-to-fly plane. I'm currently on the Citation X, and it's much more challenging to fly than the G-plane. I do a lot of overseas flying on the X. It's more work than domestic flying, but still, big deal. Does that make me an aviation god? Hardly (unless I'm talking to the ladies, then I'm most definitely Sky King!). So when you refer to someone as "little man", I gotta wonder who died and made you the Sky God? What arrogance! I've read a lot of heated arguing on this board, but almost never seen anyone "talk down" to someone else, as if they're a subspecies, like you did. Reality check buddy, you're just another spoke in the Netjets wheel, same as me, same as all the rest of us. Differences of opinion on these message boards are natural, but should still be treated with respect.

Okay, that's my post for the month. Girlfriend is on her way over! When all this is finished and over with, I hope everyone out there who's struggling in this industry wins!

 

[flyfish]

Realityman,

Your name says it all. Good post!

 

[G4dude]

Amen

Well you should be proud of yourself little man, after all these years, you’ve finally convinced me to sign up on this web board, just so I can tell you this.



I’ve been there, done that, and have seen just about everything good and bad there is to flying airplanes for a living. I’ve got more time on furlough than you probably have at NJA, and I don’t take lightly to ignorant fools like you calling me a scab. Unlike you, I worked at an auto parts store while scabs flew my airplane, only to see my whole airline go under. Your lack of understanding within the confines of what is legal and what is wishful thinking are arrogantly obvious to those of us who actually step back, listen and observe what is taking place. For years I’ve read the comments on these boards, sometimes laughing, sometimes not.



Your cowboy attitude is quick frankly, hilarious. Your dribble and demeaning banter to those pilots who attempt to show you the error of your ways only confirms what I have known all to well for some time now; you don’t know what you’re talking about. I believe you are (as you say) “all whacked out on uppers and downers”.



Now, on to what I really want to say:



After years of putting up with flying freight in the 70’s, airlines in the 80’s, hopping from one charter department to the next in the 90’s, I finally found myself with what I like to consider the “best **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**” flying job in aviation. Several pilots have correctly alluded to NJI being the world’s best operator of Gulfstream aircraft, and we are. And I am quite proud of who I work for. My employer pays me very well, they look after my personal needs, my family needs, and they have more than once showed me that they care for their employees as much as they do their customers. And that is why a union on NJI property has a snow ball’s chance in hell. We actually enjoy going to work, as is evident by the smiles on our face when you guys give us the F*U face in the FBO’s.



Young man, you can walk a picket line until you wear holes in your shoes, I could care less. I will continue to fly; your customers, my customers, and anyone my employer tells me fly. And when your union leadership decides to place me on a scab list, I will gladly see in you in a court of law where I will sue your union for defamation of character, personal damages, and anything else my attorneys think I can get!

WE WORK FOR SEPARATE COMPANIES.......


Understand little man?


So everyone, how’s that for a 1st post.

I endorse, without reservation, every word of this post by Rusty!

 

[DO-82 driver]

Rusty.......

I'd be willing to let the courts decide if we are indeeed one copamy or 2 totaly seperate ones. Let the evidence speak. That will come in due time.

Right now we have more pressing issues to address.

 

[Diesel]

Yeah we work for separate companies. I did 3 GIV trips last week. How many X trips have you done?

The only difference is you are non union and we are union.

Don't embarrass yourself by saying we are different companies. You just don't want a union on the property.

 

[x402]

we work for separate companies.

You G-Wizz guys have a great sense of humor, I'm gonna enjoy working with you.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Diesel,


Part of the reason NJI has what they have is because NJA IS Unionized. RTS just wanted to stick it to the, then fairly small, EJA pilot group for going Teamsters.

Mind you though...NJI is still grossly underpaid for what they do if you look at the industry averages.....

If we get more money then they will probably get more too...... alot of those guys are secretly routing for us but aren't really free to express those thoughts openly. They have everything to gain by NJA winning.

Stay Strong....1 week to go!!!!!!

 

[semperfido]

Diesel,

routing

don't you mean rooting

we root for teams...we route airplanes

 

[DO-82 driver]

I stand corrected....thank you Semperfido

 

[Diesel]

Young man, you can walk a picket line until you wear holes in your shoes, I could care less. I will continue to fly; your customers, my customers,

I think that was my favorite part.

Of course Do82 has more hair on his back than this guy has on his head.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Yeah we work for separate companies. I did 3 GIV trips last week. Don't embarrass yourself by saying we are different companies.

If you flew 100 so-called G-IV trips, what would that prove?



Let’s say ASA Flight 4566 from ATL-JAX cancelled today because of a mechanical, so now 50 passengers who bought a ticket on Delta Airlines won’t be flying to JAX on the flight they thought they would. So they go see customer service, and low and behold they get put on the very next flight. But wait, now their going to JAX on a Delta 757. Delta owns ASA, and Delta owns Delta. The customer has a seamless transition with a minor delay, and they arrive in JAX where they wanted to go when they bought their ticket.



So now do the ASA pilots work for ASA or Delta? Everyone knows the answer, and you don’t see ASA pilots running around screaming for a List Integration, or demanding they be merged with Delta Pilots.



Same analogy applies for your company and mine. We may be owned by the same corporation, but we work for separate companies. Different Management, operating certificates, different operation centers, etc. etc. It’s called Corporate America, and its how a company like Starbucks can own their biggest competitor, Seattle’s Best.



The most worrisome aspect of what your union is attempting here is their total lack of respect for a fellow pilot. You have no interest in the welfare of NJI employees, nor are you attempting to right a major whipsaw. NJI flies 1 aircraft type, period. Your company is 4 times the size of ours, and yet the ever faithful IBT just can’t refuse to drag us into the mix for nothing more than bargaining fodder. And then for the icing on the cake, you accuse NJI pilots of being future scabs. Your group reminds me of the CNN green video of the Gulf War in Baghdad when the Iraqis were shooting AA guns wildly into night sky hoping to hit something, anything.



Jealously sucks and you knew what you were getting into when you signed on. If you don’t like your current employer, it’s America; go find another job. Or if you want, go on strike if it makes you happy. But dragging someone who has no dog in your fight into your debacle is less than honorable in my book. Of course, I can’t speak for my entire group, because we, well……. speak for ourselves.

 

[Intreped1]

Just remember this if you think of becoming a SCAB.

Do you want your family and friends to remember you as a SCAB long after your gone?


IE..., your Urn up on the Mantle.
Grandson: Mom why was my Grandpa a SCAB?

 

[x402]

Really, is that te best you can do? ASA/Delta? These are two ALPA companies and if there an inadvertant mingling of flights, I sure that can be worked out. However, there is NO such seperation between NJI/NJA. We are both products of RTS. ASA and Delta are code shares, period. If ASA goes away, Delta will use Mesa, Air whiskey or anyone else.
When NJA can't get a XL to Mr. Big they send a GIV. When Mr Big doesn't want to pay for the ACK/BOS GV he uses the CE560. We are one big unhappy familly.

 

[AA717driver]

Really, is that te best you can do? ASA/Delta? These are two ALPA companies and if there an inadvertant mingling of flights, I sure that can be worked out. However, there is NO such seperation between NJI/NJA. We are both products of RTS. ASA and Delta are code shares, period. If ASA goes away, Delta will use Mesa, Air whiskey or anyone else.
When NJA can't get a XL to Mr. Big they send a GIV. When Mr Big doesn't want to pay for the ACK/BOS GV he uses the CE560. We are one big unhappy familly.

"Inadvertant mingling" It's not inadvertent. It's intentional. It's called an equipment sub. Ask an agent.

"When NJA can't get a XL to Mr. Big they send a GIV." Equipment sub.

No such separation between NJI/NJA? Different certificates. Different corporate officers. Different training. Different operations. It's even more separate than the formal code sharing arrangements between airlines.

When NJA can't cover a flight, they also use 135 operators. Are you gonna include all the 135 operators in the country in your single carrier filing?

Or is calling them scabs sufficient?TC

 

[Starman]

I guess the NJI weasels are pretty worried. Posting on a message board to plead their case. Sorry boys, the judge ain't gonna be too worried about how you plead your case here.

 

[Geronimo4497]

Wow

You know, as I recall, didn't we all (MOST, I should say) get involved with flying because it is fun? I think all you miserable types should go get desk jobs and continue to be miserable, but at least you would make some real money for a change. Then I could take your seat in the 'front office' and do it with a smile.

Oh wait, flying is fun, right?

I'm going to go back to flying my nice Pilatus around and having some FUN!

Life is way too short to get wrapped up in all of this BS.