The NetJets Scab list threat...

[Jolimon]

Why do you guys trust the teamsters so much? It doesn't sound like they are fighting for your best interests.

 

[G4dude]

Why do you guys trust the teamsters so much? It doesn't sound like they are fighting for your best interests.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[El Chupacabra]

We ARE the teamsters. We trust US.

 

[Jolimon]

What? You must be a Union Rep. Leading us into the no job catagory

 

[G4dude]

We ARE the teamsters. We trust US.

Unions lie to their members. They mismanage the pension funds, lie during negotiations, use current conflicts to extract revenge against old adversaries at the expense of the membership (see EAL/Lorenzo struggle), and the Teamsters are the WORST. I cannot imagine a union less likely to get you guys a good deal than the Teamsters.

 

[El Chupacabra]

What? You must be a Union Rep. Leading us into the no job catagory

As long as you wind up with no job it will be all worth it. I can see why you are worried. You can't even spell.

 

[AA717driver]

Gunfyter--The company HAS to treat the NJA people strictly by the letter of the CBA. If they don't it establishes "past practice" and THAT becomes the baseline when an issue comes before an arbitrator.

That is the unfortunate reality of life under a contract.

At NJI, if a scheduler cuts someone some slack because they helped out scheduling before, it's ok. No one can bring it up in arbitration and use it against the scheduler or the company.

With a union carrier, everyone walks around on pins and needles. You never know when you will violate the CBA or the company will TRY to violate it to see if it gets by someone and establishes "past practice" and can be used in the future.

Having been in that environment for 17 years, it sucks. Free at last, free at last...TC

 

[suen1843]

Unions lie to their members. They mismanage the pension funds, lie during negotiations, use current conflicts to extract revenge against old adversaries at the expense of the membership (see EAL/Lorenzo struggle), and the Teamsters are the WORST. I cannot imagine a union less likely to get you guys a good deal than the Teamsters.

Put me near the top of the list for not caring for unions, but G4 I think you are a little off base here. From what I have read on all the various threads, and on the ASAP board, the Netjets group is doing its own thing. Yes, they are part of the Teamsters but all the negotiating in progress is exclusively being done by their own MEC (who are all NJ pilots).
Having a local which is not associated with a bigger group (ie, Teamsters, IBEW, MEBA, etc etc etc) is almost impossible. For them to go it on their own would require mega-months of time....time they do not have.
Leaving the single-carrier issue aside, you should be supporting these pilots. Yes..they are way underpaid. Yes...they didn't get a very good T/A late last year. Yess....on and on. But, they are trying to do something about it. Take away the radical voices of NJA (and they are very few but very vocal) and you have a great bunch of guys who just want to make a decent living while doing something we all love to do...fly the airplanes.
If you had seen some of the info on the ASAP board, you would know that their MEC is not giving them any firm info and is not lying to them. That's one of the big differences between this MEC and the past bunch. They are doing their best to be realistic in their info to the members. Yeah, yeah, I know that the vocal, radical minority take the smallest bit of info and inflate it to "pie in the sky" proportions. It makes for heated conversations and debates among the rank and file, but I think most of them are realistic enough to know the fat lady ain't singing yet.

 

[AA717driver]

Reality,

You got it right. But I will answer your question.

The reason for the single carrier is that NJI flies from home. NJA wants us all do move to DAL TEB LAX CMH and MCO.

The want to cap your pay at 81K for bottom 70 percent of Captains and thats after 10 years of Sservice. But they want to pay G drivers market wages. Imagine a TA proposal that came across with G drivers getting to fly from home and paid well ... and then all the rest of us forced to RCAs and paid LOW.

That dog won't hunt.

El Chupacabra--That's why I'm pi$$ed about the whole SC thing. NJA won't GAIN all those things if you are successful with the filing. They will lose them AND you will STILL have to negotiate them in the new contract.

AND you will have dragged a whole bunch of people into your company who are unwilling participants who will very quickly become WILLING participants in a struggle for control of your MEC. BTDT.

Your dog is sniffing up the wrong tree...TC

 

[x402]

El Chupacabra--That's why I'm pi$$ed about the whole SC thing. NJA won't GAIN all those things if you are successful with the filing. They will lose them AND you will STILL have to negotiate them in the new contract.

AND you will have dragged a whole bunch of people into your company who are unwilling participants who will very quickly become WILLING participants in a struggle for control of your MEC. BTDT.

Your dog is sniffing up the wrong tree...TC

No, we will have brought the planes and crew members that Santuli has been using against us into the fold. We wish the G-Wizz guys no harm or have any hard feelings. Fight for control of the next MEC election, that's what elections are for. That's why we have serious MEC members instead of the puppets from the last local.

 

[El Chupacabra]

You worry too much. SC will take years. A lot of us old farts will be retired before it would be done.

When this CBA is done, we will have Fly From home and everything else we want in it. If the company really loves you they will ask us to drop the SC.

Now when I have everything I want in a CBA and all management asks is that we driop that suit, how many people do you think will be willing to vote NO on the contract just so we can pursue a lawsuit that will take yrs to settle and not put another nickel in my bank account. And yes bring in possibly hundreds of anti-union persons into the seniority list?

Think about it. The only way you are going on our list is if WoodBridge wants it.

 

[realityman]

G4Dude,


Wow, I seem to have hit a nerve. Sorry 'bout that. Keep in mind that I, personally, don't care much for this single-carrier thing. We could potentially be getting some very cool planes in the future, and I don't care to have my seniority number pushed back even one spot. As I said before, I generally have the utmost respect for you folks at NJI. I kind of wonder how you arrived at the fact that you're more productive than us. Gee, was it something MANAGEMENT told you? Or do you have actual figures. No sarcasm, honest questions.

You're right, I also generally don't trust Teamsters much, especially after the way our last local treated us. Lied to us? You bet! Mislead us? Yessir! Mismanaged our money? Spot on again! Failed to communicate pretty much anything to us? Uh-huh! But things are different now. Our previous local handled us, our F/A's, mechanics, and a whole buncha truckers. The new local, who will handle our money, negotiations, contract compliance, and all the other issues of our union, is comprised solely of NJA pilots whose decisions will not only impact the rank and file, but themselves as well, and is dedicated only to the pilots. They've FINALLY shown leadership, and have been very upfront with us on everything. So far we have no reason NOT to trust them. For the first time in a long time I'm optimistic. And Teamsters in general will not be involved much with our local.

Judging by your tone I doubt I'm going to alter your thinking about unions. And I don't know what to tell you about the single-carrier filing. We certainly have mixed feelings about it over here. Also, I've heard PLENTY of complaints from you guys too. It isn't all roses and rainbows on your side either. I also wonder how it is that you speak for the ENTIRE pilot group at NJI when you say, "We, at NJI HATE unions!". I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone but myself on this board. Are you sure that EVERY pilot over there detests unions like that? Or is it more of a knee-jerk reaction to this single-carrier thing?
At any rate, as a reasonable person, surely you don't think $37K/year is a good, or even partially fair salary, for a captain on any jet, do you? You can claim all you want that it's the union's fault, but I beg to differ. If the company came to us (before this whole nasty business began) and had offered us a much better pay scale, all we'd have to do is vote on it. If the membership wants it, it's done. So it's ALWAYS been up to the company to treat us right. They certainly don't have to wait on our union. But they haven't, have they? It seems to me that management (the same folks that run your company too) has never had any intention of playing fair. If they treated us the same as you guys from the beginning, there's probably a good chance we wouldn't even have a union today.

Ahh, but what's done is done. The wheels are in motion, and I don't intend on standing in front of this truck! What concerns me most about these message boards, is that these feelings may carry over into the real world. I really don't want to feel uncomfortable riding in the FBO van with you guys, or meeting in the FBO.

Enough. Gonna sleep on it.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Hey realityman-

You have a PM.

PFP

 

[G4dude]

G4Dude,


Wow, I seem to have hit a nerve. Sorry 'bout that. Keep in mind that I, personally, don't care much for this single-carrier thing. We could potentially be getting some very cool planes in the future, and I don't care to have my seniority number pushed back even one spot. As I said before, I generally have the utmost respect for you folks at NJI. I kind of wonder how you arrived at the fact that you're more productive than us. Gee, was it something MANAGEMENT told you? Or do you have actual figures. No sarcasm, honest questions.

You're right, I also generally don't trust Teamsters much, especially after the way our last local treated us. Lied to us? You bet! Mislead us? Yessir! Mismanaged our money? Spot on again! Failed to communicate pretty much anything to us? Uh-huh! But things are different now. Our previous local handled us, our F/A's, mechanics, and a whole buncha truckers. The new local, who will handle our money, negotiations, contract compliance, and all the other issues of our union, is comprised solely of NJA pilots whose decisions will not only impact the rank and file, but themselves as well, and is dedicated only to the pilots. They've FINALLY shown leadership, and have been very upfront with us on everything. So far we have no reason NOT to trust them. For the first time in a long time I'm optimistic. And Teamsters in general will not be involved much with our local.

Judging by your tone I doubt I'm going to alter your thinking about unions. And I don't know what to tell you about the single-carrier filing. We certainly have mixed feelings about it over here. Also, I've heard PLENTY of complaints from you guys too. It isn't all roses and rainbows on your side either. I also wonder how it is that you speak for the ENTIRE pilot group at NJI when you say, "We, at NJI HATE unions!". I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone but myself on this board. Are you sure that EVERY pilot over there detests unions like that? Or is it more of a knee-jerk reaction to this single-carrier thing?
At any rate, as a reasonable person, surely you don't think $37K/year is a good, or even partially fair salary, for a captain on any jet, do you? You can claim all you want that it's the union's fault, but I beg to differ. If the company came to us (before this whole nasty business began) and had offered us a much better pay scale, all we'd have to do is vote on it. If the membership wants it, it's done. So it's ALWAYS been up to the company to treat us right. They certainly don't have to wait on our union. But they haven't, have they? It seems to me that management (the same folks that run your company too) has never had any intention of playing fair. If they treated us the same as you guys from the beginning, there's probably a good chance we wouldn't even have a union today.

Ahh, but what's done is done. The wheels are in motion, and I don't intend on standing in front of this truck! What concerns me most about these message boards, is that these feelings may carry over into the real world. I really don't want to feel uncomfortable riding in the FBO van with you guys, or meeting in the FBO.

Enough. Gonna sleep on it.

It is because of these undesirable working conditions and pay that I oppose the union. The union is why you have these problems. The union is not the answer, and the proof is that the same management treats us very well, because we have a good attitude and do NOT belong to a union. Most of us at NJI feel you would be treated the same way as we are if you dump the Teamsters.
By the way, we discuss these issues all the time in the cockpit, and so far in 5 years I have found two pilots, and heard about one more, who have positive feelings about the union, and we all are hoping for good things for you guys. I talk a lot with NJA folks on the road, and enjoy the discussions very much. Your pay is awful, and we hope things get much better. With the Teamsters keeping everything adversarial, we don't see good things happening, however. Good luck, though.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Man G4!!!!!! You took a big gulp of that Kool-Aid....... As long as NJA is Unionized you folks are going to be treated the way you are.....just so that management can stick it us.

I am in 100% suporrt of this current MEC because they are truely trying to make this place the best fractional in the industry.

Flying the G-IV or V you guys should be making a heck of alot more money for what you do..... I am not happy with my working conditions and my Union will speak for me and negotiate on my behalf. Who can you turn to when you want more money than what management is willing to pay?

As far as most of the NJI folks thinking we at NJA would be treated better if we dump the Teamsters....that's for that advise...I'll keep that in mind....

Did you ever think that if WE drop the Teamsters our same management would treat YOU worse since there is no longer the treat of Teamsters being on the property.

You must admit that you are indirectly benefitted by Local 1108. Being the poster boys for good NJ employees has its benefits...enjoy them. The single carrier suit will go ahead and the courts will decide. If it is ruled that we are one carrier then a vote for representation must tke place....If ruled that we are NOT one carrier then I guess management has no reason to worry about organizing on the NJI side......I wonder if things will change over there then?

Only time will tell.....