The NetJets Scab list threat...

[Intreped1]

Just remember this if you think of becoming a SCAB.

Do you want your family and friends to remember you as a SCAB long after your gone?


IE..., your Urn up on the Mantle.
Grandson: Mom why was my Grandpa a SCAB?

 

[x402]

Really, is that te best you can do? ASA/Delta? These are two ALPA companies and if there an inadvertant mingling of flights, I sure that can be worked out. However, there is NO such seperation between NJI/NJA. We are both products of RTS. ASA and Delta are code shares, period. If ASA goes away, Delta will use Mesa, Air whiskey or anyone else.
When NJA can't get a XL to Mr. Big they send a GIV. When Mr Big doesn't want to pay for the ACK/BOS GV he uses the CE560. We are one big unhappy familly.

 

[AA717driver]

Really, is that te best you can do? ASA/Delta? These are two ALPA companies and if there an inadvertant mingling of flights, I sure that can be worked out. However, there is NO such seperation between NJI/NJA. We are both products of RTS. ASA and Delta are code shares, period. If ASA goes away, Delta will use Mesa, Air whiskey or anyone else.
When NJA can't get a XL to Mr. Big they send a GIV. When Mr Big doesn't want to pay for the ACK/BOS GV he uses the CE560. We are one big unhappy familly.

"Inadvertant mingling" It's not inadvertent. It's intentional. It's called an equipment sub. Ask an agent.

"When NJA can't get a XL to Mr. Big they send a GIV." Equipment sub.

No such separation between NJI/NJA? Different certificates. Different corporate officers. Different training. Different operations. It's even more separate than the formal code sharing arrangements between airlines.

When NJA can't cover a flight, they also use 135 operators. Are you gonna include all the 135 operators in the country in your single carrier filing?

Or is calling them scabs sufficient?TC

 

[Starman]

I guess the NJI weasels are pretty worried. Posting on a message board to plead their case. Sorry boys, the judge ain't gonna be too worried about how you plead your case here.

 

[Geronimo4497]

Wow

You know, as I recall, didn't we all (MOST, I should say) get involved with flying because it is fun? I think all you miserable types should go get desk jobs and continue to be miserable, but at least you would make some real money for a change. Then I could take your seat in the 'front office' and do it with a smile.

Oh wait, flying is fun, right?

I'm going to go back to flying my nice Pilatus around and having some FUN!

Life is way too short to get wrapped up in all of this BS.

 

[h25b]

Just remember this if you think of becoming a SCAB.

Do you want your family and friends to remember you as a SCAB long after your gone?


IE..., your Urn up on the Mantle.
Grandson: Mom why was my Grandpa a SCAB?

The funniest post I've seen yet...

Thanks, I can't decide between laughing or puking. Talk about having a flare for the dramatic. Get a life dude.

"Mom... Why was grandpa such an idiot to fly for NetJets for $28,000 / yr and then try to screw other pilots making a decent wage..." might be a more appropriate (and likely) question.

 

[buttercup]

You know, as I recall, didn't we all (MOST, I should say) get involved with flying because it is fun? I think all you miserable types should go get desk jobs and continue to be miserable, but at least you would make some real money for a change. Then I could take your seat in the 'front office' and do it with a smile.

Oh wait, flying is fun, right?

I'm going to go back to flying my nice Pilatus around and having some FUN!

Life is way too short to get wrapped up in all of this BS. http://forums.flightinfo.com/images/icons/icon27.gif

That's great!! Ask the men with families if FUN puts dinner on the table and provides a comfortable living if you live in a higher cost of living area.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Just remember this if you think of becoming a SCAB.

Do you want your family and friends to remember you as a SCAB long after your gone?


IE..., your Urn up on the Mantle.
Grandson: Mom why was my Grandpa a SCAB?

Scabs are people who work for 1/3 the wages their fellow "brothers" work for.

 

[realityman]

I guess I'm still not seeing the big deal about this single carrier thing. First, I don't really see what advantage we, at NJA, would gain by merging NJA and NJI. Maybe some pilots here would like a chance to fly the big G's, but we've already got plenty of big planes, probably with more coming in the future, so why push it? Any merger would almost definitely include fence agreements so no current NJI pilots would be pushed out of their spots. Also, as much as some NJA pilots like to believe the NJI guys would be stapled onto the bottom of our seniority list, it's highly unlikely to happen that way. From a legal standpoint there WILL be some kind of date-of-hire merge, which would result in quite a few of our pilots being pushed backwards (including some of the more senior guys such as myself), meaning that a lot of our pilots who would be hoping to have a shot at the G's may not get it, but many of the NJI guys would have a shot at, say, the BBJ. And, obviously, there would end up being a certain amount of, uh, 'friction' between the pilots groups, as being witnessed here on this board. Just seems like a lot of aggravation for little gain. But what do I know? I'm a pretty laid back guy who just wants to do my job and go home at the end of my tour.

But for the NJI guys, I'm wondering what it is you're worried about. A merger would almost certainly not result in a reduction in your wages. You wouldn't lose your current positions in the G's. And while a lot of you may not care, I'll bet there are at least a few of you who'd like a chance to fly something like the BBJ, or maybe the Flacon 7X if we were to get something like that. Your working conditions wouldn't change much, except that you would now be operating under a legally-binding set of work rules (ie. the CBA). After all, without an actual contract, what you currently have is a set of 'guidelines' that NJI can change or alter or violate any time they feel like it to get the job done. Before you start saying it doesn't happen, save your breath. I have friends flying there who have told me plenty of stories about 18-hour duty days, involuntary extensions to tours, and others. That doesn't mean they're not happy, I'm just saying that NJI can change things on you whenever they feel like it. Maybe you don't like unions? Okay fine, but what do you guys do if you decide your whole payscale needs to be adjusted upwards because, hey,the cost of living DOES go up every year. Go and ask the company nicely? I'm not a big fan of unions either, but it hasn't turned out to be such a bad thing. If NJA violates our work rules, I get compensated. So, what's the worst thing about a merger?

Finally, both sides can argue their points all they want. Just keep in mind that our union has A LOT on their plate right now. We're fighting a huge battle, with a well-entrenched and financed company. We MUST pick our battles carefully, if for no other reason than we simply don't have the resources to fight about every tiddly little thing that comes along. Only so much money, man-power, and time. So, if we've decided to fight for single-carrier status, then they must be convinced we have a strong case. Otherwise, they'd be putting our resources to better use. Ultimately, a judge will make the decision, but based on what I just said, I too believe we have a good shot at getting single-carrier status. Our union simply wouldn't go after this if our chances were slim. Again, I'm just not sure WHY we want single-carrier status. But I don't think it would be the horrible thing that the NJI guys seem convinced it would be.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Reality,

You got it right. But I will answer your question.

The reason for the single carrier is that NJI flies from home. NJA wants us all do move to DAL TEB LAX CMH and MCO.

The want to cap your pay at 81K for bottom 70 percent of Captains and thats after 10 years of Sservice. But they want to pay G drivers market wages. Imagine a TA proposal that came across with G drivers getting to fly from home and paid well ... and then all the rest of us forced to RCAs and paid LOW.

That dog won't hunt.

 

[G4dude]

Reality Man says:
But for the NJI guys, I'm wondering what it is you're worried about. A merger would almost certainly not result in a reduction in your wages. You wouldn't lose your current positions in the G's. And while a lot of you may not care, I'll bet there are at least a few of you who'd like a chance to fly something like the BBJ, or maybe the Flacon 7X if we were to get something like that. Your working conditions wouldn't change much, except that you would now be operating under a legally-binding set of work rules (ie. the CBA). After all, without an actual contract, what you currently have is a set of 'guidelines' that NJI can change or alter or violate any time they feel like it to get the job done. Before you start saying it doesn't happen, save your breath. I have friends flying there who have told me plenty of stories about 18-hour duty days, involuntary extensions to tours, and others. That doesn't mean they're not happy, I'm just saying that NJI can change things on you whenever they feel like it. Maybe you don't like unions? Okay fine, but what do you guys do if you decide your whole payscale needs to be adjusted upwards because, hey,the cost of living DOES go up every year. Go and ask the company nicely? I'm not a big fan of unions either, but it hasn't turned out to be such a bad thing. If NJA violates our work rules, I get compensated. So, what's the worst thing about a merger?
________________________________________________________________
Here is the answer: We at NJI HATE unions. Some of us were part of one in the past, and the rest of us avoid them like the Plague. We watch the disgraceful behavior of a few union guys at NJA, and realize that they would be fired instantly, and deservely so, if they behaved that way on the non-union side of the fence. We hear the customers tell us how much they dislike the attitudes of the NJA guys, and it makes us sick. We hear the militant guys intimidate the more moderate ones, and it makes us angry. Unions eat their employers, slowly but surely. We want Netjets to prosper for a long time, and know for a fact we are MUCH more productive that the union guys. Our management communicates with us very well, and us with them. We do NOT want or need any entity representing our interests to management. We do NOT want a union forced on us, and will participate enthusiastically in whatever it takes to keep NJA customers happy if there is a strike.
Wow! I feel so much better getting that off my chest. Thanks for listening!

 

[Diesel]

you talk about how we aren't as productive as you. How about all the times i hear when the flight managers that are used to working the Gwhiz boys that they can't believe we're not calling in tired after one leg. Hell I've got 3 more to go and we're doing the same trips.

Oh yeah I've got all the same stories about the nji guys. Bitching on the crew van on the way to teb ES that they had to to do two legs. MIA-PBI-TEB. All I'm thinking to myself is heck we did that before 10am. Then added another 2 legs to that.

We've all got bad apples. I'm not going to base my whole perception of NJI on your bad apples. It seems though that you have about us.

 

[gunfyter]

you can thank the management you love so much in Woodbridge for forcing this issue. All they have to do is treat us the same as they do NJI and NJE. Very Simple.

 

[G4dude]

you talk about how we aren't as productive as you. How about all the times i hear when the flight managers that are used to working the Gwhiz boys that they can't believe we're not calling in tired after one leg. Hell I've got 3 more to go and we're doing the same trips.

Oh yeah I've got all the same stories about the nji guys. Bitching on the crew van on the way to teb ES that they had to to do two legs. MIA-PBI-TEB. All I'm thinking to myself is heck we did that before 10am. Then added another 2 legs to that.
We've all got bad apples. I'm not going to base my whole perception of NJI on your bad apples. It seems though that you have about us.

________________________________________________________________
Sorry if I gave that impression! Actually, what steams us the most is the way the militant pilots intimidate the moderate ones when the subject of the strike comes up. We find the majority of NJA pilots to be very professional and pleasant. However, unions tend to penalize the conservative, hard working members, and reward the less productive, angry ones, in our opinion.

 

[G4dude]

you can thank the management you love so much in Woodbridge for forcing this issue. All they have to do is treat us the same as they do NJI and NJE. Very Simple.

__________________________________________________________________

It is my belief that if NJA would behave the way we do, they would be treated the way we are. However, I have been known to be wrong, but never without opinions!
By the way, I half expected some very fiery responses to my little message, and appreciate the civility with which I have been treated so far on this site. Especially given the highly emotional subject I usually weigh in on, namely unions.