The Negatives of the new Netjets proposal

[NJA bound]

What's going to happen here within the next few years is uprades are gonna come to a hault or few and far between if the companies plans to limit the size of the fleet happen, because under 135 regs you can fly until you die (or cant pass your first class), I have flown 135 with a 78 year old capt that flew a Learjet great, he may have finally retired though, said his wife was going to make him

There are just not that many people leaving or retiring, so if you want the upgrade you may not get a second chance for a long time if you wait for a plane with an APU.

 

[Ultra Grump]

In my seven years and three different employers in the Frax,

How did you manage that?

 

[RNObased]

5 years on the Encore with no APU!!!!!! That's reason enough to vote this thing down...

Yeah, that is a great, short sighted way to handle it.

 

[Guitar Guy]

5 years on the Encore with no APU!!!!!! That's reason enough to vote this thing down...

I know of several people here who've been on the poor, little, non-APU Ultra/Encore fleet for well over 5 years and they've suffered no ill effects as a result. In fact, add a check airman position or other extra-duty po$ition and you'll find that those guys are "$uffering" along very nicely even without a vaunted APU.

On Your Six - out of curiosity, are you employed at NetJets?

 

[Guitar Guy]

.....

 

[On Your Six]

I know of several people here who've been on the poor, little, non-APU Ultra/Encore fleet for well over 5 years and they've suffered no ill effects as a result. In fact, add a check airman position or other extra-duty po$ition and you'll find that those guys are "$uffering" along very nicely even without a vaunted APU.

On Your Six - out of curiosity, are you employed at NetJets?

No but I have a few good friends who work there including a few senior PICs and a guy who was hired about a year ago. I was just joking about the APU - although it is nice to have one and not be dependent. If I didn't enjoy my current gig so much I would have probably applied to NJA a few years ago myself.

 

[marqmarq]

APU ... sissies

For those of you who haven't flown without an APU, you are really overrating the whole issue. Like any situation, you learn to adapt and find ways to minimize your discomfort... window shades, gpus, hangars... etc. I flew the Ultra for six years. Not having an APU is an issue about 6 days a year. I actually enjoyed the fact that we might be on ramp somewhere where we didn't need to wear earplugs. Silence is golden! I made the move to an aircraft with an apu because I wanted a new challenge.... I don't believe mastering the apu was part of that challenge. Additionally, the trips that we made in the Ultra were fun. We went to a lot of out of the way places... quite often we were the only jet on the ramp. Often I feel that having an APU somehow makes someone feel like 'an airline pilot', kinda like wearing a hat or living in their parents basement, rather than just a little more comfortable during extreme temperatures. I'd have no problem going back to a non-apu aircraft if it meant a better QOL. I can sweat a few days a year... or at least my FO can in order to get a better schedule or vacation. I doubt that I will, but the APU wouldn't be a factor. So, upgrading in an ultra, encore, bbj, etc. is an UPGRADE. You are a captain, getting paid on the captain scale. It is not a sentence. If, 39 months later, you wish to and can TRANSITION to another aircraft, then do so. Enjoy the journey and cash the checks... stop whinning about.... oh, just stop whinning....

 

[LAZYB]

...I wonder what would happen if you guys vote "no" and then we get a raise that surpasses NJ?? Might create some tension over there.

Wouldn't hold my breath...

 

[notaNJApilot]

Netjets could easily institute 20, 50 or 100 domiciles if they wanted to, but instead they use it as a bargaining chip.

I read this very argument over and over on here, and it always boggles my mind that you are surprised by it. With the 5 domiciles, NJ is profitable and still attracting qualified applicants. There is no need for the Company to voluntarily open additional domiciles when it can/is be used as a bargaining chip. Do you seriously think the IBT would give up it's "loop holes" like captain bypass and H-day placement out of the kindness of it's heart? It may take until 2010 for the efficiency of a 5 domicile system to be apparent, but if this TA gets voted down, I would not be surprised if we stuck with 5 until 2010.

If the TA fails, the Company will continue to make it's millions without having to pay the pilots more. Maybe then us Company folk would get a share of that profit. We'll take your signing bonus and give the money we save from your increased salaries to Berkshire!

It sucks that 86%(or whatever the number was) were happy with the current CBA, but the new one only needs 50.1% to pass. Seems like there will be more unhappy workers with the new TA than there was/is with the current CBA.

 

[CA1900]

It may take until 2010 for the efficiency of a 5 domicile system to be apparent...

As someone who knows our business, you should know full well that basing all the pilots in a few places, when the aircraft are scattered around the country, is about as inefficient as you can be.

The company is wasting money on more and more first-class tickets for me, because that's all they can find out of PBI. Meanwhile I live in Orlando, with dramatically more--and cheaper--air service. Another 3 years isn't going to change that fact.

 

[SDCFI]

Seat Locks

Seat locks may suck, but at least you can bid over to other a/c. At Flex you're stuck with what you get. Would be nice for a 45 or 60 FO to be able to bid over to the 300 or 604, but no. Not a big deal with upgrades under two years, but if they go back up to 4+ that's a long time to be stuck in the right seat of a Lear.

 

[Flybet3]

Ok NJA folks, we keep hearing from our CP at Flexjet that we only talk about the good things from this new proposal and that its not fair to only talk about the good things. For our benefit, what are the bad things in this new deal so we may discuss?

Pilots... Never fu**** happy. NOT EVER! :smash:

 

[gunfyter]

It may take until 2010 for the efficiency of a 5 domicile system to be apparent, but if this TA gets voted down, I would not be surprised if we stuck with 5 until 2010.

.

Domiciles work so well ... thats why NJI has them....

 

[RNObased]

I read this very argument over and over on here, and it always boggles my mind that you are surprised by it. With the 5 domiciles, NJ is profitable and still attracting qualified applicants. There is no need for the Company to voluntarily open additional domiciles when it can/is be used as a bargaining chip. Do you seriously think the IBT would give up it's "loop holes" like captain bypass and H-day placement out of the kindness of it's heart? It may take until 2010 for the efficiency of a 5 domicile system to be apparent, but if this TA gets voted down, I would not be surprised if we stuck with 5 until 2010.

If the TA fails, the Company will continue to make it's millions without having to pay the pilots more. Maybe then us Company folk would get a share of that profit. We'll take your signing bonus and give the money we save from your increased salaries to Berkshire!

It sucks that 86%(or whatever the number was) were happy with the current CBA, but the new one only needs 50.1% to pass. Seems like there will be more unhappy workers with the new TA than there was/is with the current CBA.

If you think this IBB is just to open up more gateways and give the pilots a raise, then you haven't been shown the big picture.

Don't worry we will find "loop holes" in this contract if it passes, that is what we do.

I'm not even going to talk to you about money, you probably had the chance to become a pilot if you wished.

The pilots will do their jobs even if this passes, by one vote. Just because a guy is voting no, doesn't mean he is against everything in the contract and most of us are professional enough to move past it.

 

[Nolife]

The new TA sounds great. I'd go to NJA now if they called just for the chance of working under those rules and money.

As far as long term planning everyone in this business should know by now that the only constant is change. Live for today and see what happens tomorrow. Stressing over what may happen in 2013 and using that as a reason to vote down this TA in crazy in my opinion.