The Negatives of the new Netjets proposal

[doylehargraves]

Ok NJA folks, we keep hearing from our CP at Flexjet that we only talk about the good things from this new proposal and that its not fair to only talk about the good things. For our benefit, what are the bad things in this new deal so we may discuss?

 

[Mooneymite]

Danger, danger!

I am fairly new at NetJets...less than 2 years, so most of the big stuff seems to be aimed at bringing me up to the so-called "pre-rats". If this passes, I'll get to give up my 9.5 hour drive to/from work. I get a nice raise. I get a choice of three different schedules. I get to use a sick day for an off-day without having to tell a lie. All good.

What are the negatives?

There are two biggies as far as I'm concerned:

A 39 month seat-lock is onerous. For a first officer looking for his first captain up-grade, being seat-locked for more than 3 years on a non-apu aircraft during a time of rapid movement is a tough pill to swallow.

A contract that can possibly last until 2016 is outright dangerous should we have a period of hyper-inflation. Some of you might be old enough to remember how far wages fell behind during Jimmy Carter's presidency. I will never forget the economic hardship this economy impossed on every wage earner.

Danger, danger!

Exercise extreme caution.

I am really on the horns of a dilema. I really want to stop commuting and really would love the raise, but I have to ask myself if this interim agreement is a short cut to job/wage stagnation.

 

[mauipilot]

That 39 month seat lock still doesnt apply to a captain upgrade. Even if you bid in to the falcon as an fo which incurs another 39 month seat lock after you complete your inital seatlock you can still upgrade to captain and your seat lock just rolls over.

 

[x402]

The IBB TA has a few elements that 'some' dislike but I believe it will pass >65%.
Some instructors 'may' get assigned to lines or schedules they don't want.

18 day schedule will be just that 18 days.

The length bothers some, but if the option years are picked up it will mean NJI/NJA has been resolved.

Some 14+ year pilots feel their pay will have been capped.

Some think we should wait until this contract is amendable 2 years and have at it then.

These are internal issues and I can't see that your CP would be able to interpret them as bad things. They are things that some here disagree with but not bad.
All in all great raise and QOL for new guys, ok raise for everyone else, oh and another signing bonus.

Time will tell how the vote goes.

 

[DO-82 driver]

This is not really the appropriate venue to discuss this topic.

Many of the negatives are only perceived until they are properly explained and understood. I had several negatives until I picked up a phone and called an MEC member and things were explained to my satisfaction.

Are there some negatives....sure. Let's talk about them on the secure Union board. That's where the decisions to vote "YES" or "NO" will be made.

The rest of the world will have to wait until Nov 20th

 

[On Your Six]

Contract for the next 8 years?????

I don't work at NJA, but I have a few friends who do. Basically it is a short-term vs. long-term tradeoff. For anyone who was hired post-ratification of the last TA, this will enable them to boost their salaries and choose from 100 total domiciles - that would be a significant QOL win for the pilots. Plus, interest in NJA would jump because pilots from every other facet of aviation would be interested in the choice of domiciles and high pay (including some major airlines). It would be very positive for some pilots in the short term.

On the other hand, my friends are very concerned about the implications of a contract that could last until 2016 - that is a loooooooooong time. Many things could happen during that time.

So, it's a short-term vs. a long-term type of question. Do you take the short term benefit of the initial higher wage and great domicile choices? Or do you think about the long-term considerations in which you could be screwing yourself for a very long time depending on what happens in the industry. What about inflationary concerns? What about structural changes in the industry? Why can't NJA provide the domiciles in a home-basing format like the formerly did for NJA and currently do for NJI? There are a lot of questions that need to be answered. NJA management is waving this initial salary/domicile carrot in front of all of the junior people to entice them and to distract them from the long-term picture that would surely benefit them (not having to negotiate for a long, long time).

Personally, there is no way I would agree to any contract that long. Never - that is way too long (and it includes a negotiating period at the end). Netjets management knows that it needs pilots NOW for growth and the current domicile system is ridiculous (and NJA management knows that - it is basically a bargaining chip that they are waving around). If NJA management is serious about attracting and RETAINING the best pilots it will have to change the domicile policy because pilots are actively avoiding Netjets because of the restrictions. Plus, NJI (the related Gulfstream operation that is not unionized) already operates on a home-basing setup - so, we know it can be done if NJA management wants to make the change. Home basing can be done - and that's the way NJA used to do it.

So, if you think about this as a long-term career issue, I would vote NO if I were in your position and I would wait for NJA management to make the INEVITABLE domicile and salary changes (or I would have the union reps negotiate it). If they don't, I believe attrition rates will increase as the majors continue to hire more and the so-called "best pilots" avoid the joint going forward. This is a long-term vs. short-term bet. It is very easy to focus on the short-term benefits and forget about the long-term implications - and NJA management wants you to focus on the S-T picture.

That's my $0.02.

 

[MILPILOT]

May 22, 2013 would be the new end date with an option to extend to May 21, 2016. This IBB extends the 2005 CBA 2 years and 6 months.

 

[Mooneymite]

That 39 month seat lock still doesnt apply to a captain upgrade. Even if you bid in to the falcon as an fo which incurs another 39 month seat lock after you complete your inital seatlock you can still upgrade to captain and your seat lock just rolls over.

The 39 month seat lock does apply.

You are not prevented from up-grading from FO to your first captain seat. However, you do incur a seat lock in that first captain seat.

If you are an FO with 10 months left on your FO seat lock, you may immediately up-grade to captain, but you have a seat lock in whatever airplane you up-grade to. If it is an airplane with "low desireability", you are stuck there until your seat-lock is up.

 

[Mooneymite]

This is not really the appropriate venue to discuss this topic.

Huh?

The question was "what are the bad things in this new deal..."

Seems like a reasonable question to me. Anyone interested in applying to NetJets needs to know what's cooking in NetJets land.

 

[cush]

I don't work at NJA, but I have a few friends who do. Basically it is a short-term vs. long-term tradeoff. For anyone who was hired post-ratification of the last TA, this will enable them to boost their salaries and choose from 100 total domiciles - that would be a significant QOL win for the pilots. Plus, interest in NJA would jump because pilots from every other facet of aviation would be interested in the choice of domiciles and high pay (including some major airlines). It would be very positive for some pilots in the short term.

On the other hand, my friends are very concerned about the implications of a contract that could last until 2016 - that is a loooooooooong time. Many things could happen during that time.

So, it's a short-term vs. a long-term type of question. Do you take the short term benefit of the initial higher wage and great domicile choices? Or do you think about the long-term considerations in which you could be screwing yourself for a very long time depending on what happens in the industry. What about inflationary concerns? What about structural changes in the industry? Why can't NJA provide the domiciles in a home-basing format like the formerly did for NJA and currently do for NJI? There are a lot of questions that need to be answered. NJA management is waving this initial salary/domicile carrot in front of all of the junior people to entice them and to distract them from the long-term picture that would surely benefit them (not having to negotiate for a long, long time).

Personally, there is no way I would agree to any contract that long. Never - that is way too long (and it includes a negotiating period at the end). Netjets management knows that it needs pilots NOW for growth and the current domicile system is ridiculous (and NJA management knows that - it is basically a bargaining chip that they are waving around). If NJA management is serious about attracting and RETAINING the best pilots it will have to change the domicile policy because pilots are actively avoiding Netjets because of the restrictions. Plus, NJI (the related Gulfstream operation that is not unionized) already operates on a home-basing setup - so, we know it can be done if NJA management wants to make the change. Home basing can be done - and that's the way NJA used to do it.

So, if you think about this as a long-term career issue, I would vote NO if I were in your position and I would wait for NJA management to make the INEVITABLE domicile and salary changes (or I would have the union reps negotiate it). If they don't, I believe attrition rates will increase as the majors continue to hire more and the so-called "best pilots" avoid the joint going forward. This is a long-term vs. short-term bet. It is very easy to focus on the short-term benefits and forget about the long-term implications - and NJA management wants you to focus on the S-T picture.

That's my $0.02.

Very well stated. This contract will dictate half of the rest of mine and manys career at Netjets. Not to mention i'm a year 12 guy on (was) the verge of a class 4 bid....the rug has been pulled away...AGAIN!