The Negatives of the new Netjets proposal

[Dr Pepper]

Mooney,
Upgrades for new hires will likely happen after there seat lock has expired. The beauty of seat locks, or the pain if you will, is that it causes one to make choices. Stay in the a/c they are currently in and incur no new seat lock until upgrade. Or move to an aircraft greater than 40K GTOW, and then they must decide to upgrade "on-time" with the roll-over lock or stay in the seat until the lock expires. How much do you value your $ or your APU/TCAS? I will concede that I am in a "good" aircraft (everything is relative) and won't go non-APU for 7 or so years in a row.

On-Your-Six,
One of the big debates is the time value of money and how clear is your crystal ball. The voters must decided if they truely can recoop the loses over a career by voting no (if this is their driving issue). Also, one must decide if they think we will get a deal as good, better or worse in 2010-2012 (however long it takes to amend the 05 CBA). It has been made clear that there is no chance for IBB2 if this fails - no time.

Doyle,
Other concerns are:
- the 100 bases are still arbitrary.
-Falcon guys will not make what they could have previously.
- No annual adjustment to the base salaries
- PTO is complex and useless (for its intended purpose) to the junior pilot (seat/fleet).
- The 15 day flex schedule - you have 0 control. It can be junior assigned.
- PBS has 24 months to be implemented. Why does it need to take that long when the programming is already in existance?
- There are some changes to the HBA system that have weaker language than the '05 doc.
- Retiree health care is changed. Some see this as a minus, others as a necessity.
- Use of the company credit card.

This is a negotiation though. Some of these negatives are only negatives for a select group. To each his/her own. Vote accordingly.

 

[old*art]

Anybody pre 98 should have very few complaints. If you want the money you can make yr 12 $155,000 to $166,000 yr 14 regardless of aircraft, signing bonus of +/- $21,000 yr 12, 4% per year longevity bonus after 15 yrs, cola after 2013 if contract is extended, family medical fully funded - at least $10,000 -, unless you are a complete pig and cannot survive on company crew meals, $240 a tour tax free, 50% match 401k = $7500 a year with terrific investment options, 4 weeks vacation at yr 12, treat you great if you have a family emergency .. get out of the way and let someone have the job who will appreciate it !
Tell me who else will pay you like this for the work you do !!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Another consideration looking long term:

If this TA passes, I would assume that NetJets would get a lot of new guys applying with good credentials.

If this TA is shot down, then NetJets will get less pilots applying and less qualified pilots applying. This situation will get worse as the pilot shortage gets worse, month after month, into the foreseeable future. (Boeing predicts that worldwide, 17,000 new airline pilots are needed per year for the next 20 years.).

If the number of new hires isn't enough to staff the expanded fleet, the company will make less money, thus they will have less to pay the current pilots in future contracts.

If the quality of new hires isn't as good, then the owners may perceive that NetJets is worth less money, thus leading them to switch fracs or not sign up with NetJets in the first place.

The situation, like everything on Earth, is very complicated.

If you are a NetJets pilot, I hope the vote goes your way.

cliff
ABQ

 

[johnsonrod]

Vote it DOWN! Don't accept the management carrot...

I love the idea of working at Netjets. Great airplanes, unlimited route variety, very good money relative to all regionals and even some national airlines. However, I do get concerned when I think of the long-term nature of this proposed contract. A deal that could potentially last through 2016 is too long - I agree with On Your Six.

I also agree that the domicile offer is just one big carrot being dangled in front of the junior pilots who had been stiffed by the restrictive 5 domicile policy. Netjets could easily institute 20, 50 or 100 domiciles if they wanted to, but instead they use it as a bargaining chip. Both Citationshares and Avantair offer 20-40 domiciles each.

Given the choice, I would probably vote it DOWN as well. Netjets will have to make changes if they expect to hire the quality of pilots they promise their owners. Better pay and domicile selection will be required to do that. I just don't think you should give up your flexibility in the short term with a super-long term contract. That sounds foolish and short-sighted to me.

 

[gutshotdraw]

After having re-read the TA a few times now to make sure I wasn't missing something: Don't base your vote on the length of contract. In my assessment, the Company will not meet all the terms required to automatically extend the contract 2 1/2 years. Beyond that, decide for yourself and your situation which is better and vote accordingly.

 

[marqmarq]

I don't get it

Our contract will be extended to 2013. We get a big bump now. FOs get taken care of. Junior captains do well, senior captains, maybe not so much. If we wait we HOPE that we can get something better in 2010. No guarantees here except what we agree to now. IF the company meets several benchmarks, including the incorporation of NJI, then the contract goes to 2016. And what happens then? Well, captains will see a $10k+ raise each year between 2013 and 2016! More importantly, if we wait, who is going to negociate for us? It'll be the same folks who gave us the 2005 CBA and the IBB. The same ones who recommend the IBB. Those screaming and yelling the loudest about the imperfections are incapable of leading the pilot group (have they run for office??) and/or they cannot or will not make the sacrifices of the current leadership.

Questions and dialogue are wonderful and necessary. Close review by the pilot group has pointed out some errors and given the leadership a chance to clarify new and confusing language.

While change is scary, the fear will recede, and eventually we'll all start bit*hing about the contract because that is what pilots do. Otherwise, he IBB is a good deal for the pilot group.

 

[RNObased]

Ok NJA folks, we keep hearing from our CP at Flexjet that we only talk about the good things from this new proposal and that its not fair to only talk about the good things. For our benefit, what are the bad things in this new deal so we may discuss?

Sounds like your CP is on a fishing mission.

There is some stuff that I think is bad, but that is from the inside of NJA looking at it. Most of the bad stuff is internal changes. If you are on the outside looking in, you would be hard pressed to find a lot of bad.

Example; I know guys over at Flex used to work 6 on 4 off, using 28 days as a month. (Personally that is a BS tatic for getting more work out of you, but I won't go there right now) So say you did this on the 18 days schedule at NJA, if it gets voted in. My base salary would be around 135,000 and that is on a real month, not a fake 28 day one, is your salary going to be anywhere close to that???

 

[doylehargraves]

RNO, good point. Something "bad" to you guys might not necessarily appear bad to us. It's all relative I suppose. Bottom line here is they should give us a raise based on the last 2 great years we've had. I wonder what would happen if you guys vote "no" and then we get a raise that surpasses NJ?? Might create some tension over there.

 

[imacdog]

I love the idea of working at Netjets. Great airplanes, unlimited route variety, very good money relative to all regionals and even some national airlines. However, I do get concerned when I think of the long-term nature of this proposed contract. A deal that could potentially last through 2016 is too long - I agree with On Your Six.

I also agree that the domicile offer is just one big carrot being dangled in front of the junior pilots who had been stiffed by the restrictive 5 domicile policy. Netjets could easily institute 20, 50 or 100 domiciles if they wanted to, but instead they use it as a bargaining chip. Both Citationshares and Avantair offer 20-40 domiciles each.

Given the choice, I would probably vote it DOWN as well. Netjets will have to make changes if they expect to hire the quality of pilots they promise their owners. Better pay and domicile selection will be required to do that. I just don't think you should give up your flexibility in the short term with a super-long term contract. That sounds foolish and short-sighted to me.

Do you even work for NJA? Have you read the entire TA?

 

[netjetwife]

More importantly, if we wait, who is going to negociate for us? It'll be the same folks who gave us the 2005 CBA and the IBB. The same ones who recommend the IBB. Those screaming and yelling the loudest about the imperfections are incapable of leading the pilot group (have they run for office??) and/or they cannot or will not make the sacrifices of the current leadership.

Mx2, The last part of your statement is more realistic than the beginning. I think it's a mistake to assume that the current negotiators of the IBB proposal would make the same effort all over again IF the pilot group gives their work a vote of no confidence. The natural reaction would be to suggest those dissatisfied should take their place; as in "Be my guest" and other less polite expressions. Even if the present team was willing, human nature says the company would not be. (Insert the angry, crude phrase you use in that situation). IBB was written in a spirit of cooperation and ushers in a new era of mutual respect. The company is meeting the pilots half way. If that effort is rejected it could set 1108 back to the days of the contract battle, and the current leadership has made it clear they want to keep moving forward. Positive reinforcement (voting yes) may very well lead to another round of talks a few years down the road. [personal observation and deductive reasoning only]

The downside of the IBB proposal, then, is the test that is forced on the new relationship that both sides have invested heavily in with time and effort. Those who say it's not just about the money and the bases are right. Far more is at stake and the potential pay off is huge. IBB represents a whole new way of doing business for the NJ pilots and management. The proposal is a sign post to a brighter, more secure future.