"The list"

[flygirlqt]

Anybody hired after the Picket Lines at CAL came down are not on the "list". Why would they not be accepted into ALPA? The New York Air Pilots did not cross any Picket Line, therefore are not own the "List" and have every right to be accepted into ALPA.

Those who are on the "List" from CAL and were later accepted back into ALPA for Political reasons are a different story. There are very few of us who agreed with that decision and I doubt we would consider them anything other than Scabs regardless if they carry an ALPA card.

Spin it any way you want, but those are the facts.

Then you really do not understand the history of NYA and the original vermin who went to work for Lorenzo.

 

[Sacha]

Sorry. But I do understand. Striking Eastern and a former ALPA rep. Going to work for an alter ego airline within an airline may be distasteful or not honorable, but it doesn't constitute crossing a picket line and ending up on a Scab list.

Those are the facts.

That's kinda like saying eliminating Floridas "Stand Your Ground" law would have changed the outcome in the Zimmerman trial when it had nothing to do with that case whatsoever.

You are a Lawyer?

 

[pilotyip]

Just curious. What did the Scabs "win"?

Captain's seat right away, a secure job where they could work until age 60, much better pay than, flying junk out of MIA, 135 charter, CFIing, or even unemployment. Also what is the cut off date for a CAL hire who is a scab and one who is not a scab? BTW Not saying CAL was a great job under Lorenzo, but in the early 80's it was a job when there were not too many others one out there.

 

[Sacha]

When the Picket Line came down. Pretty straightforward.

If that's your definition of "winning" than you have good company with Charlie Sheen and General Lee......

Me. I prefer different company. I am just glad I didn't let the setbacks in my aviation career allow me to compromise my Honor and Values. I realize that is a foreign concept to most in this once great Republic.

 

[pilotyip]

When the Picket Line came down. Pretty straightforward.

And when was that?

Me. I prefer different company. I am just glad I didn't let the setbacks in my aviation career allow me to compromise my Honor and Values. I realize that is a foreign concept to most in this once great Republic.

Same as me, while unemployed, when given a contact number at CAL in 1983/84 that could lead to a job at CAL, I talked it over with my ALPA buddies I flew with my reserve squadron. To a "T" they told me it would be the end of my career and I would end up working for some non-sked at Willow Run. So I did the honorable thing and never followed up with the CAL contact. However it is ironic that I now work honorably for a non-sked at KYIP knowing I did the right thing.

 

[flygirlqt]

Sorry. But I do understand. Striking Eastern and a former ALPA rep. Going to work for an alter ego airline within an airline may be distasteful or not honorable, but it doesn't constitute crossing a picket line and ending up on a Scab list.

Those are the facts.

That's kinda like saying eliminating Floridas "Stand Your Ground" law would have changed the outcome in the Zimmerman trial when it had nothing to do with that case whatsoever.

You are a Lawyer?

As well as a former airline pilot and daughter of a rEAL pilot. So you were the S/O rep in MIA in 88?

If those NYA pilots did not go to work for Frank's alter ego experiment robbing airplanes from Texas International, there probably never would have been a Continental then followed by the Eastern fiasco and ALPA disaster. So you are "factually" correct about a scab list, none the less the acceptance of NYA as well as those who crossed should have been treated as one in the same. Your understanding is superficial at best in the grand scheme of things of union behavior and solidarity but is indicative of the blurred lines of ethics. I DO remember my father saying NYA pilots should be treated as nothing but scabs and shunned way back in 1981. I remember attending a rally with him as a kid with JJ O'Donnell screaming into a microphone that "NYA will not turn one start valve". lol...yes we all saw how that worked out.

This NYA issue however is just another extension of the blurred and less than honorable ethics that permeate and infest ALPA national. Frankly, I find the behavior of many who tout the line of ALPA ethics and union solidarity are in essence just as reprehensible as those who scab when it suits their own interests.

Speaking of less than honorable ethics, how about when Eastern struck and Delta pilots were going out of there way to pick up extra flying on Eastern routes during the strike?

How about the fact that our own alma matter brothers at Eastern buried the Braniff pilots with the South America route acquisition? My father was very disgusted by the behavior of his own MEC over this and treatment of fellow ALPA pilots. You do realize that a number of the Continental scabs were former Braniff pilots with a major bone to pick with ALPA over that little fiasco. I also remember seeing a "union" document that showed over 70% of the scabs at Continental were former ALPA members. Somehow ALPA really pissed off a lot of pilots.

Don't get me started about the Zimmerman case either.

 

[wingnutt]

[Insert golf clap here]

 

[Sacha]

So you state that I have a "superficial" knowledge of the situation even though I was an F/O rep at Eastern ALPA and then a ALPA rep at 3 subsequent carriers and an ALPA Member at 6 Carriers and then you proceed to vacillate back and forth about who was wrong and right based on your experiences as a daughter of an Eastern Pilot.

Ummm..okay

The only thing worse than an Attorney,is a Pilot who went to Law School to become an Attorney...

I would love to hear your incisive, analytical insight into the Zimmerman case. It would probably have all the logic and intellectual depth as Al Sharpton at a New Black Panther reunion.

 

[flygirlqt]

So you state that I have a "superficial" knowledge of the situation even though I was an F/O rep at Eastern ALPA and then a ALPA rep at 3 subsequent carriers and an ALPA Member at 6 Carriers and then you proceed to vacillate back and forth about who was wrong and right based on your experiences as a daughter of an Eastern Pilot.

Ummm..okay

The only thing worse than an Attorney,is a Pilot who went to Law School to become an Attorney...

I would love to hear your incisive, analytical insight into the Zimmerman case. It would probably have all the logic and intellectual depth as Al Sharpton at a New Black Panther reunion.

I vacillated about nothing and damn well have the background to comment about all of this. The truth is a bit painful for you but those are the facts.

The only thing worse than a pilot carping about a pilot becoming a lawyer is a pilot that isn't bright enough to actually get through law school to stop being a pilot. That is probably why you had to sloth through 6 airlines. I know your type.

You claim to be around 50 years old in another post yet you were a F/O rep at the end of Eastern in 1989, and have now worked for 6 ALPA carriers? Ummmm ok. None the less, I have found some of the most idiotic, deceitful, thieving and unethical pilots I have ever encountered had a long resume of of their "ALPA" back ground just like you like to flash around.

Actually I think the shooting was justified but Zimmerman did incite the situation. I also believe there was Judicial and prosecution misconduct in the case. Just like the pom pus ass that you portray yourself to be on this forum you have once again over reached and assumed.

 

[Sacha]

Pilotyip,

I am fairly certain the Picket Line at CO came down in the Fall of 85. September if my memory serves me correctly. They claimed for Legal reasons the Strike was not officially over but most everyone I know, including some good friends who were CO strikers marked that as the end of the strike.

You seem to look back and say if you knew how your career was going to turnout, you may have done things differently. Perhaps you would have been better off if you had "crossed the line".

Thankfully I have engaged in that thought process only for the brief moments when I look at the other guy and say "Life ain't fair", "I want mine!" Then I catch myself and realize I was brought up differently.

Thank God.