The Evil of PFT......

[SigAV8R]

Give me a break!!!
How in the hell do you know what they vote????

Because someone PFT'd, they are NOT going to want to get paid well with lots of days off when they are at a REAL airline, that has got to be one of the most idiotic things I have heard.

Everybody wants to get paid well, I'm sure that includes SCABS too. Though they are a different category all together.

Yeah, you're right...I don't know how anyone voted. I wasn't saying that pilots don't want to get paid well. But because you paid for your job, it proves you're willing to do anything to get/keep your job. This would include things such as accepting less $$$ and worse working conditions on the basis that you didn't make the effort to get where you're at. You didn't spend the hours teaching, flying freight, ferrying airplanes, flying the in the bush...or whatever. Granted, everyone is looking to move on to a major, but P-F-T is setting a precedent that it's okay for mgmt to pay less or to have sh!tty work conditions b/c someone's willing to accept it. After all, they PAID US to get their jobs. All of us would love to get to our dream job sooner than later, but we also have to remember to leave the company/industry in a better condition for the people that follow. SCABS are just another example of pilot backstabbing their brothers and sisters.

Anyone who has ever CFI'ed for $8 an hour or flown for free or bought a type rating to get a job or spent time at a commuter/sweatshop for $16K a year is no better in my book than someone who PFTed. The dirty secret is we've all whored ourselves out at one time or another to get ahead, anyone who has ever taken a job for below industry standard wages to get experience was in effect "buying the seat". You're just paying for training/experience via your paycheck instead of paying for it up front, and we call that sort of PFT "paying your dues".

Yes, we all make concessions, but we're not paying students for the priviledge of instructing them. So what exactly is "industry standard wages"? Commuters where you get $15K/yr aren't asking you to pay for your training (some of them)...they're just paying you what you're willing to accept. That's whoreing. Low pay is one thing, but buying your job is another thing.


From one pilot whore to another.

 

[scoot]

Bobby,

You are right about some kids who want to "buy" the job without any thought for others or the impact of just having daddy write a check for it. They miss the perspective gained by "earning it", and of the respect for the profession and the toughness needed to be a good pilot. That is their loss, but the FAA standards pretty much keep the unqualified out. Everyone must pass the same tests.

I've got to get away from this disscussion 'cause it's cutting into my study time, besides, we're all entitled to our opinions. I just think we should look to do things THAT WILL HELP THE FELLOW PILOT GROUP INSTEAD OF DIVIDING IT!

Gulfstream folks are getting hired all over the place. One of the CP's from Comair told me they LOVE GIA pilots because they come in well trained and 121 experienced. Just in my class at ExpressJet there are 3 GIA folks. I know 16 GIA FO's have been hired recently full time there.
This is a fun but endless discussion.....

 

[blablabla]

Hey SigAV8R,

I did not PFT, or buy a job, I am a flight instructor getting paid, albeit poorly. I did not vote on that, and I did not PFT. Looks like even non-PFTers agree to low wages at just about every single flight instructor job I know.

 

[SigAV8R]

Hey SigAV8R,

I did not PFT, or buy a job, I am a flight instructor getting paid, albeit poorly. I did not vote on that, and I did not PFT. Looks like even non-PFTers agree to low wages at just about every single flight instructor job I know.

I meant P-F-Ters, not you personally. Besides, you said you had mixed feelings about it so I figured you were not a P-F-Ter.

SigAV8R

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream P-F-T v. Comair non-P-F-T

For the record, Delta Connection Academy fka Comair Aviation Academy is not P-F-T. It is a flight school, laden with great promises and expectations. But, it is not P-F-T, which is why the following comment is especially rich:

Gulfstream folks are getting hired all over the place. One of the CP's from Comair told me they LOVE GIA pilots because they come in well trained and 121 experienced. Just in my class at ExpressJet there are 3 GIA folks. I know 16 GIA FO's have been hired recently full time there . . .

In other words, Comair hires Gulfstream P-F-Ters ahead, perhaps, of its own graduates?

That is hilarious!

 

[scoot]

I meant 16 Gulfstream PFT'ers hired by Gulfstream.
Anyway... bye, bye, I gotta fly. Good Luck to everybody!

 

[bobbysamd]

Okay . . .

I meant 16 Gulfstream PFT'ers hired by Gulfstream.

Out of how many who laid down their $23,940? I submit again, the percentage of those who are hired against the total number who pay is small indeed.

 

[duksrule]

Re: P-F-T

. . . which is the issue. Having a fat checkbook is their sole qualifier for these "jobs." Never mind the alleged qualifications set forth by the P-F-T airlines ( Gulfstream only "requires" a Commercial-Instrument-Multi). Gulfstream operates under Part 121, which means that its FOs are required crew members. Most are P-F-Ters who paid Gulfstream for a job and have taken away work from legitimately-qualified pilots because they could write a check.

How would you like it if you had applied for a job, didn't get it, and learned that someone else got it because he paid for it. What's not to understand?

Sorry but a less qualified person who pays for the job (PFT) is no different than someone with a connection on the inside and gets hired ahead of more qualified people because they have a magic LOR.

 

[Timebuilder]

From back on the first page of this thread, this was observed by a poster:

It's just the same old crap, over and over again.

Now, why is this true?

Answer: because there is always some kid who was not learning anything about aviation policies just a couple of years ago, who now seeks information about how to craft his career.

Ergo, we discusss this phenomena and its impact on the profession of aviation yet again.

 

[Timebuilder]

Sorry but a less qualified person who pays for the job (PFT) is no different than someone with a connection on the inside and gets hired ahead of more qualified people because they have a magic LOR.

I think that's false.

Someone who pays for a job affects the professional status of ALL pilots, particularly those at the PFT carrier.

An "inside connection" is how almost ALL corporate jobs are filled, and a large number of others in the 121 world. You don't get recommended unless you can cut the mustard, since no one will make themselves look bad by recommending a "less qualified" person. That means that someone is not hired on an LOR ahead of a "more qualified person." The hiree simply has the additional qualification of having an advocate.

 

[duksrule]

I think that's false.

Someone who pays for a job affects the professional status of ALL pilots, particularly those at the PFT carrier.

An "inside connection" is how almost ALL corporate jobs are filled, and a large number of others in the 121 world. You don't get recommended unless you can cut the mustard, since no one will make themselves look bad by recommending a "less qualified" person. That means that someone is not hired on an LOR ahead of a "more qualified person." The hiree simply has the additional qualification of having an advocate.

True that someone isn't going to risk their credibility by giving a LOR to someone with poor skills. On the other hand though I am guessing that even though they are PFT that a lot of those guys are just as good of a pilot.

 

[Timebuilder]

On the other hand though I am guessing that even though they are PFT that a lot of those guys are just as good of a pilot.

I can see that as a valid observation. Being a PFT pilot does not mean that said pilot might not also be a talented or a proficient pilot.

That aside, there is still the damage that PFT does to the professional standing of ALL pilots as being easily manipulated into paying for something that should be a paid position according to respected standards of the industry.

 

[bobbysamd]

Proficiency and skills as a non-starter

Being a PFT pilot does not mean that said pilot might not also be a talented or a proficient pilot.

Even I have never said that. I have never argued against P-F-T from the safety standpoint. At least for discussion's sake, I've always assumed that a P-F-T pilot is not turned loose unless he/she has passed the requisite proficiency check.

I make that assumption because the P-F-T airline's insurance company won't carry any more risk than it already might. That said, I still submit that P-F-T airlines will try harder to push through the less-capable strictly in order to earn more P-F-T training revenue from the person's deposit.

[T]here is still the damage that PFT does to the professional standing of ALL pilots as being easily manipulated into paying for something that should be a paid position according to respected standards of the industry.

Absolutely, Mr. Time.

 

[deadstick]

Has anybody ever seen GIA post openings for CA's? And what % of the folks DON'T get the boot after the 250 hrs?

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream post P-F-T hiring

Has anybody ever seen GIA post openings for CA's? And what % of the folks DON'T get the boot after the 250 hrs?

Probably the single digits or less - unless they want to write another check!

And, how many of the ones who are booted immediately get hired by airlines? I would submit, significantly few. Probably most end up getting their CFIs and instruct. So much for trying to bypass the CFI route via P-F-T.